Payday 2 is a game I love dearly, with close to 200hrs played. Payday 3 is currently a game I can see becoming one that I feel the same way about, but as it is in 2023, no.
The short version, Payday 3 is an improvement to most systems. However a combination of a few missteps in changing the perk/levelling systems, and a lack of content overall. Makes Payday 3 a classic "its okay now, but I can see it being great later".
Extended Thoughts
Praise where its due
The decision to make difficulty increase be achieved via:
- Raising objective requirements (like requiring more loot needing to be stolen before the group can escape)
- Adding extra mission modifiers (like indestructible cameras, or guards leaders that will get paged constantly)
- Making enemy ai more aggressive
Opposed to raising the health/dmg output of enemies, is a smart, and well appreciated move, that will be better for game health in the long run. Avoiding the power creep issues of Payday 2 that made the game impenetrable for newer players, or even players that haven't heisted in a year.
This approach to difficult, in combination with a revamped stealth system that feels like a solid PS1 era stealth-game (opposed to Payday 2, which felt like an exploit that could break at any second). Results in Payday 3 being an incredible foundation to build upon.
However, as of launch, Payday 3 ONLY feels like an incredible foundation.
I know it would be unfair to compare the content of launch P3 with current P2, but even comparing to launch P2 makes P3 feel like an early access release opposed to a 1.0.
P2 launched with 11 heists, 6x 1 day heists, 2x 2 day heists, and 3x 3 day heists (so a total of 19 "missions"). Whereas Pday3 launched with 8x 1 day heists, effectively meaning launch P3 has less than half the missions of P2's launch.
The lack of mission content, paired with ludicrously slow progression to unlock the 16(?) guns with far less customisation, and the pile of perks that give minor improvements that don't really give a single sense of "making a build". Results in Payday 3 feeling lesser than the sum of its parts, whereas the less foundationally strong Payday 2 in having so much variety, felt far stronger.
I have put 17 hours in so far, I am level 35. While I think the idea to tie levels to challenges verses raw exp could be better, encouraging seeking harder challenges, opposed to grinding the same heist for exp to level up to then attempt the harder challenges.
The implementation of this being "do X mission above Y difficulty 60 times loud" and "do X mission above Y difficulty 60 times stealth" AND "unlock all attachments for X gun", which itself IS an exp grind still! Only WORSE because:
1. You undergo long stretches of no progress for overall level. And since gun exp is set, you will just pick the fastest mission complete to exp gain ratio, and repeat that single mission at nauseum.
2. You are actively disincentivised to do lower difficulty heists with newer players, because you get nothing for it. This would be actually good for Payday 2, where a higher level player would just be able to steamroll a low level heist with a more powerful build. But Payday 3 has less power creep, so the gap in what a level 1 and 100 player can do is more a matter of game sense and skill. So these players should be put together because it would actually help the community bring each other up.
If Payday 3 has a content cycle at least on-par with that of Payday 2, and undergoes similar perk and levelling system reworks once the community at large has really dug into the systems. I do ultimately think after a year to three, Payday 3 will be seen more favourably. Until then, I think Payday 3 is currently only for die hard fans of Payday, and people that will play though each heist once or twice via gamepass.
The short version, Payday 3 is an improvement to most systems. However a combination of a few missteps in changing the perk/levelling systems, and a lack of content overall. Makes Payday 3 a classic "its okay now, but I can see it being great later".
Extended Thoughts
Praise where its due
The decision to make difficulty increase be achieved via:
- Raising objective requirements (like requiring more loot needing to be stolen before the group can escape)
- Adding extra mission modifiers (like indestructible cameras, or guards leaders that will get paged constantly)
- Making enemy ai more aggressive
Opposed to raising the health/dmg output of enemies, is a smart, and well appreciated move, that will be better for game health in the long run. Avoiding the power creep issues of Payday 2 that made the game impenetrable for newer players, or even players that haven't heisted in a year.
This approach to difficult, in combination with a revamped stealth system that feels like a solid PS1 era stealth-game (opposed to Payday 2, which felt like an exploit that could break at any second). Results in Payday 3 being an incredible foundation to build upon.
However, as of launch, Payday 3 ONLY feels like an incredible foundation.
I know it would be unfair to compare the content of launch P3 with current P2, but even comparing to launch P2 makes P3 feel like an early access release opposed to a 1.0.
P2 launched with 11 heists, 6x 1 day heists, 2x 2 day heists, and 3x 3 day heists (so a total of 19 "missions"). Whereas Pday3 launched with 8x 1 day heists, effectively meaning launch P3 has less than half the missions of P2's launch.
The lack of mission content, paired with ludicrously slow progression to unlock the 16(?) guns with far less customisation, and the pile of perks that give minor improvements that don't really give a single sense of "making a build". Results in Payday 3 feeling lesser than the sum of its parts, whereas the less foundationally strong Payday 2 in having so much variety, felt far stronger.
I have put 17 hours in so far, I am level 35. While I think the idea to tie levels to challenges verses raw exp could be better, encouraging seeking harder challenges, opposed to grinding the same heist for exp to level up to then attempt the harder challenges.
The implementation of this being "do X mission above Y difficulty 60 times loud" and "do X mission above Y difficulty 60 times stealth" AND "unlock all attachments for X gun", which itself IS an exp grind still! Only WORSE because:
1. You undergo long stretches of no progress for overall level. And since gun exp is set, you will just pick the fastest mission complete to exp gain ratio, and repeat that single mission at nauseum.
2. You are actively disincentivised to do lower difficulty heists with newer players, because you get nothing for it. This would be actually good for Payday 2, where a higher level player would just be able to steamroll a low level heist with a more powerful build. But Payday 3 has less power creep, so the gap in what a level 1 and 100 player can do is more a matter of game sense and skill. So these players should be put together because it would actually help the community bring each other up.
If Payday 3 has a content cycle at least on-par with that of Payday 2, and undergoes similar perk and levelling system reworks once the community at large has really dug into the systems. I do ultimately think after a year to three, Payday 3 will be seen more favourably. Until then, I think Payday 3 is currently only for die hard fans of Payday, and people that will play though each heist once or twice via gamepass.