Men from all the series in this site, mega man might be the one with the most bullshit takes of them all, the game is literally one of the most balanced in the entire series in terms of weapons, and here is this dude saying only 3 are worth it while not even mentioning the most important ones (Tornado Blow and Magma Bazooka, also Hornet Chaser if you like actually easing your life you know...), also arguing the Wily Last phase doing more damage than you can do is a bad thing because... it makes things harder? (also the difference is only 3 to 4, new Demon Souls in town folks) Or arguing about the bosses being "dull" like they're some Super Mario when they are exactly how the rest of the series has been... Look, from your other reviews you sound like a reasonable and smart individual, but this review in specific sounds more like that AntDude Rockman & Forte rant, to a game which ins't nearly as unforgiving and way more thought out, but nevertheless misinterprets the game mechanics as equally.

Tornado Blow is a screen nuke that costs way too much energy compared to the three I mentioned taking up so little by comparison, alongside the fact its mechanical use is only viable for a few sections near the end. Magma Bazooka is fine, almost a direct upgrade to the Mega Buster cause of its low consumption and how damage is dealt, but once again it is outclassed by Jewel Satellite protecting you from damn near everything, BHB swiping everything in its range of fire, and Laser Trident costing as much with a smidge decrease in damage, but with the added benefit of pierce damage. Hornet Chaser's good all around, and is pretty much the only other worthwhile weapon while also actually being solid enough to not feel over or underpowered. I'm sorry, but when three of the weapons can answer almost everything the game throws at you, I'm calling out its lopsided balancing. Mega Man 10 and 11, the next games after, are far more balanced weapon wise.

Condensing my problem with the Wily fight as a "durr it harder so it bad" pisstake is straight up an erroneous and horrific argument, especially since there's much worse final fights in the series that actually are hard for the wrong reasons (MM7). The issue is that you have less ways to counter and fight back due to the larger size and super tight attack patterns, alongside the first half needing Concrete Shot which is hands down one of the most finnicky weapons in the whole series (yes I know about its application in speedruns, no I don't care).

AntDude's video on R&F is on him for being impatient and blaming the game for his own misdeeds, especially when he plays out footage of him dying on spikes that are in full view then acting like it's out of nowhere. MM9, to its fairness, doesn't rely on Gotchas, but instead are centered around precise jumps that are insanely sensitive, as well as super tight enemy patterns which gets harder near the end. Sure, it's manageable, but when prior and the next two games have been more balanced around this (4, 6 and 7 especially), the low points stick out so much more.

what is it with megaman 9 defenders being the most pretentious megaman fans ever

I could be mean and say they're just following Youtuber opinions, but killb (rightfully) called out AntDude's bad video on R&F so I'll chalk it up to the game being popular enough that against the grain opinions like ours are treated with more scrutiny. That said, the Demon Souls comment as well as the "just like the rest of the series" comment is pure copium since the former is disregarding hitbox and pattern usage, and the latter is ignoring how fundamentally different in design each game in the series are from one another despite common tropes and philosophies.

In addition, I haven't touched MM9 since I posted that review, and my writing style has changed largely since, so I'd probably have more to say if I ever bother to replay it.

Take one look at killb's account and you'll see what they're like..

To be fair, Mega Man 9 haters are also very pretentious. But well, it's understandable from both perspectives, Mega Man 9 was a game purposely developed to be an 80's game with all that implies, so it's not going to appeal to everyone and it's not a good game for its time.

Although I find it funny that in a review from 2 years ago this discussion has arisen.

I tend to find more MM9 fans be more holier-than-thou than the detractors, but well, that could just be selective bias at play. I don't really find the game to be the same type of design flow that most of the NES entries share, but I'm not gonna hound the fans on it that much, it's whatever at the end of it all

Also yea I have no idea why someone finally decided to comment on this review now lol, I tend to forget my really old ones so it was funny to see a notification about it here

9 comments, 6 more likes (which I hope didn't come from a private Discord server) and 2 deleted comments, just because of a post I made to a review from 2020, jesus this gonna be one of those threads ins't it.

Anyway, Tornado Blow while limited in ammunition is still very useful in bypassing some annoying enemy patterns really easily, given it more ammo that would be straight up unbalanced, don't know why you reduce it to "a few sections at the end", I at least saw major improvements in HOrnet Man and Jewel Man with it. Magma Bazooka really ins't nullfied with the ones you mentioned since Jewel Shot and Laser Trident doens't give as much damage and don't cover the ranges the Bazooka does, while you have to pratically stay still with BHB to use it correctly. Only weapon I really remember don't having much use is Concrete Shot (aside from speedrunning like you mentioned), but even if it was only the 3 you mentioned + Hornet CHaser, it still is miles better than most of the other ones in the series (Metal Blade 2 and Straight Shot 3 as good examples. It can be debatabe if 11 did it better, but you really wanna say the game that gave us Chill Spike and Plug Ball 2 Metal Blade edition is better than this?

Could you elaborate on the Wily Stages getting worse at least? I know it's a old review with a writing style that is not yours anymore, but with statements like "difficulty be more prevalent than ever" as a negative without much explanation, it really seemed like a "hard = bad" complaint, specially with the damage complaint in which I am still not convinced. What the fuck the hitbox has to do with this, it's still as easy to dodge his attacks if you know what you're doing, while the it technically follows the same pattern of (most) souls bosses which is having a set of pre dertermined attacks that are thrown at you randomly, with the only difference in MM9 being more obvious about it, and the ide of having less life here is the same too: to force you to memorize the pattern and learn from it more carefully, as opposed to, in MM9 case, the other bosses whose you could cheese easily with their weak weapons, hence why in this last phase it limits you... Although that's not necessarily true too since Jewel Satelliting it and when that weapon is over, switching to Plug Ball, can make your life much easier even though it takes longer.

While I can understand the why a harder game might not be each one coup of tea and you're right in saying the game doens't have the same design as the other ones, I do think the changes here are for the better in comparison with the rest, the tight enemy patterns make me actually think about the ways I can maneuver then and analyse how they act, as opposed to some older ones, specially 6 and 8, where I just passed through shit automatically, they are more interesting too since they have more varied obstacles than say 3 and 4, the fact they can actually put more than 3 enemies at the same time in the screen can help though. Same thing with the spikes and insta deaths, that while I wish where less prevalent, add way more tense scenes and variation through the challenges you face, although and don't think they where as sensitive and precise as you mentioned (except maybe in Jewel Man stage), it's just that it can really throw you off in the first tries until you actually learn it. It kinda has a simliar design few of Mega Man 11 now that I think about it, even if that game is easier because spedogeah. I made this paragraph to show why it's valid for the game to have that difficulty, but that "just like the rest of the series" comment was to specifically address the robot masters fight which reaaaaaally are the fucking same thing as post MM1 NES boss fights and I still don't know where the fuck your argument they're bad now came from.

Also why the fuck am I being called pretentious for that comment? Where did that come from? Specially in a site where "Unit Operations" review gets 40 likes (not to diss GoufyGoggs, that review is amazing, but still). I agree MM9 are more holier-than-thou though because most MM9 discourse is centered around "where is slider????" or "8 bit = nostalgia pander" and other non issues. While I disagree fundamentally with your review, you actually tried to present an coherent criticism here, hence while I felt inclined to answer it even though it is 2 year old, didn't even expect an answer from it really.

Sorry if this comment has any errors too I am ESL and I am kinda drunk rn.

First deleted comment came from me due to a misuse of a word which fuels my argument as to why this site needs an edit feature for comments, the other was cause CNM themselves deleted it since I imagine it'd cause more fuel to the fire than was needed (as a personal note, I never intentionally delete others' comments unless absolutely necessary, usually I just opt to shut down the comments). The additional likes came in cause followers of mine that never saw my review looked at the activity feed and came in to like it, and admittedly I was pretty annoyed by it as well since it felt rather cheap to earn.

Tornado Blow's only real use is during specific sections where a higher jump output or platform movement is needed in order to move onward, such as the first few sets of the Wily Castle stages. It doesn't have any practical, weapon reliability since screen nukes before generally took up less energy, and since most of the enemies are at or near ground level one activation of a Jewel Satellite, a shield that will almost never become obsolete, stays with you throughout each level encounter, and can be launched onto enemies with no added energy cost, it's better to use that as a safety net. Magma Bazooka might deal more damage than the others, but consider that you can spam three Laser Tridents in a row for less energy use, as well as again the piercing effect, and it loses its luster. I'll grant you that BHB has more of a setup period to use it effectively for either weapon, however. As for the Mega Man 2 & 3 comment, I'll just say that if we disregard each game's unabashedly best weapons, 9's a little better than 2's due to the rest either being Good Enough or just outright sucking, but about on par with 3's (which is to say, it's pretty neat). Also I completely forgot about Plug Ball, that one's also pretty decent as well. Like I said, the roster itself is fine, I just hate how three of the available kit are more or less the Go-To answer, I like these games because of their usability in different forms and environments, so having to rely on less of them simply cause it's better - or in 5's case, just the Mega Buster - is wack.

Like I said I haven't played this since that review, so you're just gonna have to take my memory off of this unlike the weapons which are easier to remember for different reasons. Not that many encounters felt like Inti Creates really looked at the NES hexology... OK well specifically 2-6 that closely, cause it tended to follow the rule of "random appearance via background object and/or pit", an egregious amount of spikes for rooms that don't necessarily call for it, as well as upping the ante in rather arbitrary ways, such as the elephants in Concrete Man's stage barely giving you the reaction time and readability to dodge the ball and damage it, especially with just the Buster. There's some encounters I like, but I tend to encounter the bad than the goods. Hitboxes have a lot to do with it cause having to line up shots for the eggs to damage the weak spot of the first phase, as well as Wily himself having sporadic pattern changes that appear too fast, just sucks ass. It's also why I said that comment in my review because the best way to damage him (Plug Ball) has the same problem as Bubble Lead in 2, but at least in that game you had an easier time to learn and dodge. Side-to-side it's about as bad as the final fight in MM7, all things considered.

At this point it seems like we're just getting completely different vibes. What exactly is tense about having to make a tight ass jump due to the low ceiling? What exactly is tense about having to do a pendulum puzzle in a room where a spike can graze just the tip of your sprite? Having more enemies on screen can make it more challenging or exciting, sure, but it's also easy to go overboard and make it unnecessarily difficult. Mega Man 11 has similar aspects to this granted (Impact Man and Acid Man) but generally that game gives you enough leeway to get a feel and overcome the obstacles, although the balancing for the Wily Castle in that game is funny cause I thought the first half was harder than the second. If you got a kick of the stages, more power to you, but I really don't think IC did a good job adapting the structure and flow of the prior Classic games, especially 4 and 7 which are tied as my favorites. Also if your comment on that was about the Robot Masters, then yea I guess they're like the old bosses... if you specifically remember the ones where they either have abusable jump arcs for a shot loop, or have a painfully simple horizontal walk cycle with attacks that are just as easy to figure out (I will now acknowledge the irony in me saying this despite listing my favorites that are also guilty of this, only thing I'll say is that those aren't the norm unless you use their weakness). Concrete Man, Splash Woman, and maybe Tornado Man at least have a little more going on than that.

Anyway I'm pretty much done with this. Despite some confrontational statements being made, as well as again the suddenness of it, I thought it was fine enough to comment over, doubly so since you've provided legitimately solid arguments. Really, I'm pretty much burnt out on the back-and-forth, and to reiterate this is a game I find middling that I also haven't touched or thought deeply over after 2, going on 3 years soon, since I last played it. Plus, I imagine at least a couple of people following me don't really want to see this on their feed repeatedly if I keep going. Like I said, if I ever care enough to do a replay of this then I'd be willing to put in my more in-depth review and opinion, but as of now it's a game I don't exactly like that, while I may not really "get", don't wish any ill-will towards people that do like it.

nah you shouldnt replay this, instead replay something epic like mmx1 😎

rapelay

I will not bother replying it since you said yourself you're done with this and I myself don't like walltext wars myself, but I have read your comment nonetheless. All I have to say is sorry if I have sound confrontational, even if I was attacking the idea, there was admittedly no reason for me to go in such a aggressive manner to a game you haven't played in 2 years and doens't really care much about too. Also you we're right about the bosses, lmao I might have been blind or something cause Plug, Magma and Jewel man fights suck ass, and I have replayed this 2 months ago, didn't remember that...