This review contains spoilers
Edit: I'm putting this edit in here to say that Disco Elysium is the type of game that I've grown to appreciate more over time as I listen to new perspectives on it and spend even more time letting it rattle around in my head. The comments below and the video/article linked therein are great, and honestly should be read in tandem with my review for a more full view of my thoughts on the game now. Since writing this review I've decided that this game actually deserves a spot in my top 5 favorite games of all time.
I just finished my second playthrough of this game, the first time in the vanilla edition, and second in Final Cut. I think it's one of my favorite games of all time, but every time I think about this game there's one thing that always nags in the back of my mind. I made a twitter thread about it, and this is a copy paste of that. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this:
I've had some time to settle on Disco Elysium and I do still think that it's kind of black pilled to a degree that still bothers me. Like, I don't need every piece of art to inspire hope. I'm not trying to say "make Disco Elysium but make it hopepunk."
But at the same time, when the game (which only rarely mentions anarchism) relentlessly presents every single ideology as a failure, I don't think that's a great message to leave people with...
According to the game, centrism is laughable because it is incremental and bureaucratic to a point where nothing changes. Liberalism is laughable because it's just the rich profiting off worker exploitation, and workers chasing the status of the rich.
Fascism is laughable because it strives to go back to an ideal version of the past that never existed, and relies on foolish notions of race science.
But communism, the game says, is laughable because it is at its core about failure. About trying to build something better, but inevitably falling to the immense crushing power of global capitalism.
I think there are some good critiques of a particularly online brand of communism the game lays out. Critiquing the type of person who isolates themselves from the world. Preaching communism but taking no part in community.
Thinking they are The Last Communist who will be the Big Communism Builder and single handedly liberate the masses with the sheer power of rhetoric.
The Final Cut also lays out a critique of the type of person who has an almost religious adherence to communism as a metaphysical force that will solve every single problem as if by magic, rather than taking a materialist approach as is presented in actual communist analysis.
And it also lays out a critique of the constant infighting over minute ideological bickering within leftist circles. Where we shatter all connections with people who by all materialist analysis should be our comrades. The capitalists win when we can't even start.
A lot of these critiques I love, and a lot of them hit hard because sometimes it's hard not to fall into those types of problems. And they are massive barriers to achieving any kind of goal. At some point the work has to be done, and it has to be done together.
Like, even now I feel like this thread is self-indulgent rhetoric. As if I'm going to fix the fucking world by tweeting out my political thoughts about a video game.
But the thing that keeps bugging me in the back of my mind when I think about this game is, it has no solution. The most hopeful element, and to call it that it a huge stretch, is a union strike with ambitions of seizing the means.
The reason it's a stretch is because even then, the union leader is always made out to be someone who talks a big game about worker's rights, but who underneath it all, is out for their own power. This is also why it bothers me that anarchism is only ever mentioned in passing.
The game mocks the standard video game power fantasy of being the individual hero who saves the world, but it is also skeptical of the only means of collective action it portrays. It is very much implied that should be means be seized, they will be massacred yet again.
All of the game's hope lies in a personal redemption arc for the protagonist, for you to get your own shit together, but it is deeply hopeless about any future for society.
And I understand why to a degree. The game was made by an Estonian studio, a former satellite state of the USSR. The country's history is engrained with the fight against but ultimate defeat to the forces of capital.
The game also to my understanding, largely came out of the lead dev's own personal experience of getting himself out of a deep state of depression and self-loathing, and some of the game's best moments shine here.
There are aspects of this game that push it pretty far into "one of the greatest games of all time" territory for me. The absolutely incredible degree to which you can actually role play, and the amount of contextual and skill check based context is something to behold.
There are multiple lines of dialogue in this game that clearly come from such a personal place, and are so haunting, that they'll doubtlessly stick with me for a very long time. This is the type of game that can only be made by an indie studio with a strong creative vision.
But the absolute sheer hopelessness it seems to have for future society...it bothers me. It bothers me that this game, that is in a big way about not being black pilled, about choosing life, about choosing connection, about choosing to stay in this world and be human...
Is ultimately just so bleak about the big picture of it all. I don't need everything to be sunshine and rainbows. I don't need an indie game studio to present the solution that finally liberates us from capitalism. But god, I'd like something.
I just finished my second playthrough of this game, the first time in the vanilla edition, and second in Final Cut. I think it's one of my favorite games of all time, but every time I think about this game there's one thing that always nags in the back of my mind. I made a twitter thread about it, and this is a copy paste of that. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this:
I've had some time to settle on Disco Elysium and I do still think that it's kind of black pilled to a degree that still bothers me. Like, I don't need every piece of art to inspire hope. I'm not trying to say "make Disco Elysium but make it hopepunk."
But at the same time, when the game (which only rarely mentions anarchism) relentlessly presents every single ideology as a failure, I don't think that's a great message to leave people with...
According to the game, centrism is laughable because it is incremental and bureaucratic to a point where nothing changes. Liberalism is laughable because it's just the rich profiting off worker exploitation, and workers chasing the status of the rich.
Fascism is laughable because it strives to go back to an ideal version of the past that never existed, and relies on foolish notions of race science.
But communism, the game says, is laughable because it is at its core about failure. About trying to build something better, but inevitably falling to the immense crushing power of global capitalism.
I think there are some good critiques of a particularly online brand of communism the game lays out. Critiquing the type of person who isolates themselves from the world. Preaching communism but taking no part in community.
Thinking they are The Last Communist who will be the Big Communism Builder and single handedly liberate the masses with the sheer power of rhetoric.
The Final Cut also lays out a critique of the type of person who has an almost religious adherence to communism as a metaphysical force that will solve every single problem as if by magic, rather than taking a materialist approach as is presented in actual communist analysis.
And it also lays out a critique of the constant infighting over minute ideological bickering within leftist circles. Where we shatter all connections with people who by all materialist analysis should be our comrades. The capitalists win when we can't even start.
A lot of these critiques I love, and a lot of them hit hard because sometimes it's hard not to fall into those types of problems. And they are massive barriers to achieving any kind of goal. At some point the work has to be done, and it has to be done together.
Like, even now I feel like this thread is self-indulgent rhetoric. As if I'm going to fix the fucking world by tweeting out my political thoughts about a video game.
But the thing that keeps bugging me in the back of my mind when I think about this game is, it has no solution. The most hopeful element, and to call it that it a huge stretch, is a union strike with ambitions of seizing the means.
The reason it's a stretch is because even then, the union leader is always made out to be someone who talks a big game about worker's rights, but who underneath it all, is out for their own power. This is also why it bothers me that anarchism is only ever mentioned in passing.
The game mocks the standard video game power fantasy of being the individual hero who saves the world, but it is also skeptical of the only means of collective action it portrays. It is very much implied that should be means be seized, they will be massacred yet again.
All of the game's hope lies in a personal redemption arc for the protagonist, for you to get your own shit together, but it is deeply hopeless about any future for society.
And I understand why to a degree. The game was made by an Estonian studio, a former satellite state of the USSR. The country's history is engrained with the fight against but ultimate defeat to the forces of capital.
The game also to my understanding, largely came out of the lead dev's own personal experience of getting himself out of a deep state of depression and self-loathing, and some of the game's best moments shine here.
There are aspects of this game that push it pretty far into "one of the greatest games of all time" territory for me. The absolutely incredible degree to which you can actually role play, and the amount of contextual and skill check based context is something to behold.
There are multiple lines of dialogue in this game that clearly come from such a personal place, and are so haunting, that they'll doubtlessly stick with me for a very long time. This is the type of game that can only be made by an indie studio with a strong creative vision.
But the absolute sheer hopelessness it seems to have for future society...it bothers me. It bothers me that this game, that is in a big way about not being black pilled, about choosing life, about choosing connection, about choosing to stay in this world and be human...
Is ultimately just so bleak about the big picture of it all. I don't need everything to be sunshine and rainbows. I don't need an indie game studio to present the solution that finally liberates us from capitalism. But god, I'd like something.
6 Comments
I see where you're coming from absolutely but I see it rather differently. I'll preface this by saying I personally am not an anarchist by any means but it's a philosophy I understand and respect.
But to me I'd say my main takeaway from the game was entirely about critiquing this personal obsession of pasts and history to the point they have no future. All the political ideologies focused on in the game are very centered around a sort of nostalgia and longing for the golden age of their ideologies, the moralists with the leadership of Delores Dei, the communists with the revolution, the fascists with the nationalist monarchy, the liberals with the days of expansion and exploration. This parallels Harry's own journey and his obsession with his past failures. His memory loss is in effect literally a chance to let go of the past in a way that these other characters just can't. Ironically these characters and ideologies are longing for the time when their ideologies had a clear future in mind, but their time is past or has stagnated in to give and take cycles, like the conflict between the working class socialist Union and the liberal capitalist Wild Pines.
The implication of the Moralintern being the most powerful political group with the most influence over this world from behind the scenes and their entire ideology being the lack of progress and adherence to the Status quo, is essentially an indication this is a world that has reached a limit of what the future can possibly contain as long as this group is in power and the masses are focused on their own nostalgia to do anything about it and create any real progress. They hold influence over the conflict between the modern factions to the point no real progress could ever come within the confines of the current system. The very concept of "future" has essentially reached a plateau and the obsession of the past has ensured a lack of progress. This is clearly supposed to mirror things in our own world and in that way it is extremely bleak as you say. But let's address a couple more of the fictional implications of Elysium for now.
This might be reaching a bit but I also almost see the Pale in the games lore as a literal manifestation of the destructive and limiting restriction of the past, there's many things in the game that allude to the Pale containing the memories of everyone and everything in the world and people exposed to it too much even experience pasts and histories that aren't theirs. If you did the church quest you'd meet the Anodic dance music kids and encountered the 2mm hole in the world where the Pale is expanding outward to slowly consume all in Martinaise one day. This event parallels many other themes in the game of the grip the past has on this city and that it will slowly consume it and destroy it's future. In this way i do feel the game is rather bleak, but it really is Harry's story and is ultimately about him finding his own meaning and hope in a dying world with little future. Which I personally think is a beautiful and hopeful thing in a way on it's own but let's take this a little further.
To it back to the Church quest, there's a lot of hopeless doom and gloom ideas you can bring up about the 2mm hole of pale in Martinaise, but there's a few lines Harry can say and some of the other characters like I believe Noid and Egg mention in passing about their dance club maybe being able to contain the hole at least a little bit like the church was apparently meant to in the first place, it's mostly a goofy joke in passing it seems like and maybe shouldn't be taken seriously. But there's something really unique about the church group in the grand scheme of the whole game, yes they're kinda painted as ridiculous and goofy, especially by Kim and potential Harry himself who are older, and they're misguided in their original plan to make a drug lab in the church, but they're possibly among the only characters in the game with some, even simple, mindset of genuine progress. Even if it's just their lofty ambitions and obsession with this music, it's something new and a direction to the future. And if anything can slow down the Pale consuming Martinaise, maybe just maybe it is these kids and their dumb new music.
As I said earlier, I'm not an anarchist, but it's no coincidence that when you speak to these kids in depth, particularly Noid, who's probably the most well spoken of the group, their entire ideology seems to be a rejection of the political extremes or lack thereof with the other groups in the game. He's also one of the few characters in the game that openly criticizes the widely revered Delores Dei. Essentially their progressive philosophy is type of anarchism and embrace of the Hard Core. It is the rejection of the Moralintern, the status quo and the current parties in power in general.
It's ultimately the Church quest and the hunt for the phasmid that ended up being my favorite parts of the game, culminating in the ending confrontation with the Phasmid which is just beautiful for me. And it's specifically the hope that these things instill in the bleak hopelessness of the game that make them so beautiful. They're shining gems of a hope for something new to erase or surpass the past which is what this dark world and Harry needs the most. So I see the doom and hopelessness in this world as a fact, but there's always something to grab on to even if it's something personal, which is what makes this one of my favorite games I've ever experienced personally. I think it's a great philosophy, especially in the face of a doomed world and putting yourself in the shoes of a world weary man at the end of his rope like Harry.
I do really appreciate your review though, it was a good read and great to think about even though I viewed the game differently from my own perspective personally. It's an incredibly interpretative game and especially how different people's individual playthroughs and entire experiences with it can be create so many different views towards it, which is great in my opinion.
But to me I'd say my main takeaway from the game was entirely about critiquing this personal obsession of pasts and history to the point they have no future. All the political ideologies focused on in the game are very centered around a sort of nostalgia and longing for the golden age of their ideologies, the moralists with the leadership of Delores Dei, the communists with the revolution, the fascists with the nationalist monarchy, the liberals with the days of expansion and exploration. This parallels Harry's own journey and his obsession with his past failures. His memory loss is in effect literally a chance to let go of the past in a way that these other characters just can't. Ironically these characters and ideologies are longing for the time when their ideologies had a clear future in mind, but their time is past or has stagnated in to give and take cycles, like the conflict between the working class socialist Union and the liberal capitalist Wild Pines.
The implication of the Moralintern being the most powerful political group with the most influence over this world from behind the scenes and their entire ideology being the lack of progress and adherence to the Status quo, is essentially an indication this is a world that has reached a limit of what the future can possibly contain as long as this group is in power and the masses are focused on their own nostalgia to do anything about it and create any real progress. They hold influence over the conflict between the modern factions to the point no real progress could ever come within the confines of the current system. The very concept of "future" has essentially reached a plateau and the obsession of the past has ensured a lack of progress. This is clearly supposed to mirror things in our own world and in that way it is extremely bleak as you say. But let's address a couple more of the fictional implications of Elysium for now.
This might be reaching a bit but I also almost see the Pale in the games lore as a literal manifestation of the destructive and limiting restriction of the past, there's many things in the game that allude to the Pale containing the memories of everyone and everything in the world and people exposed to it too much even experience pasts and histories that aren't theirs. If you did the church quest you'd meet the Anodic dance music kids and encountered the 2mm hole in the world where the Pale is expanding outward to slowly consume all in Martinaise one day. This event parallels many other themes in the game of the grip the past has on this city and that it will slowly consume it and destroy it's future. In this way i do feel the game is rather bleak, but it really is Harry's story and is ultimately about him finding his own meaning and hope in a dying world with little future. Which I personally think is a beautiful and hopeful thing in a way on it's own but let's take this a little further.
To it back to the Church quest, there's a lot of hopeless doom and gloom ideas you can bring up about the 2mm hole of pale in Martinaise, but there's a few lines Harry can say and some of the other characters like I believe Noid and Egg mention in passing about their dance club maybe being able to contain the hole at least a little bit like the church was apparently meant to in the first place, it's mostly a goofy joke in passing it seems like and maybe shouldn't be taken seriously. But there's something really unique about the church group in the grand scheme of the whole game, yes they're kinda painted as ridiculous and goofy, especially by Kim and potential Harry himself who are older, and they're misguided in their original plan to make a drug lab in the church, but they're possibly among the only characters in the game with some, even simple, mindset of genuine progress. Even if it's just their lofty ambitions and obsession with this music, it's something new and a direction to the future. And if anything can slow down the Pale consuming Martinaise, maybe just maybe it is these kids and their dumb new music.
As I said earlier, I'm not an anarchist, but it's no coincidence that when you speak to these kids in depth, particularly Noid, who's probably the most well spoken of the group, their entire ideology seems to be a rejection of the political extremes or lack thereof with the other groups in the game. He's also one of the few characters in the game that openly criticizes the widely revered Delores Dei. Essentially their progressive philosophy is type of anarchism and embrace of the Hard Core. It is the rejection of the Moralintern, the status quo and the current parties in power in general.
It's ultimately the Church quest and the hunt for the phasmid that ended up being my favorite parts of the game, culminating in the ending confrontation with the Phasmid which is just beautiful for me. And it's specifically the hope that these things instill in the bleak hopelessness of the game that make them so beautiful. They're shining gems of a hope for something new to erase or surpass the past which is what this dark world and Harry needs the most. So I see the doom and hopelessness in this world as a fact, but there's always something to grab on to even if it's something personal, which is what makes this one of my favorite games I've ever experienced personally. I think it's a great philosophy, especially in the face of a doomed world and putting yourself in the shoes of a world weary man at the end of his rope like Harry.
I do really appreciate your review though, it was a good read and great to think about even though I viewed the game differently from my own perspective personally. It's an incredibly interpretative game and especially how different people's individual playthroughs and entire experiences with it can be create so many different views towards it, which is great in my opinion.
@Sutakku Thanks for the comment, that was a really good bit of writing you just did, and I like that perspective on it. It still does bother me though, that the game is seemingly so class conscious in its writing, and yet presents all of these ideologies as if they're just relics of the past. While I agree that you can absolutely be hyper-fixated on the past, like the extremely-online communists who can't shut up about the Soviets, I don't think that's a reason to completely dismiss communism or anarchism as paths forward. Like I said in my review, I really do think some of the best moments in the game are in moments of personal redemption (or as close as you can get) but I also think that a sole focus on the personal is...kind of depressing. Like, it's resignedly accepting the end of history, and that the world is fucked and the only thing you can do is try to make things better for yourself. I also think that there is some level of artistic responsibility that isn't being met, in knowing that most people playing your game are not going to be super class conscious, and then leading them to the conclusion that there is no good path forward out of capitalism.
I like this video that addresses the criticisms I lay out in my review. The more perspectives I hear on this game the more I appreciate it. Though still, I must say that the video basically lays out the case that the game is hopeful because it shows that the conditions for revolution will always be there, and communism will be a path forward and history will not end. However, I would still argue that the game also makes the case that the power of capital and the status quo is so overwhelming as to immediately crush any meaningful resistance. And so it presents a world in which the conditions for revolution are always met, but revolutionary struggle is never met with success, which seems incredibly hopeless to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdW7Cp0iV0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdW7Cp0iV0A
"In the end, the weirdness of the cryptid, along with haunting possibilities of lost futures and utopias, remain just that: possibilities. Yet, it is this possibility that allows hauntology, and Disco Elysium to encourage optimism in a time of depression. Desire for the future, for the revolution, is what sustains the struggle during dark times. It is the ravers building their nightclub, and the union fighting against the company; the refusal to move on from the belief that an alternative is possible; that despite the brutality, bloodshed and death that arises, the possibility that the future can still arrive. That un jour serai de retour près de toi. Cindy’s message, is, in a time of loneliness, suicide and sadness, one of the most clear hauntings present in the game. Her promise that “one day I will return to your side,” is a utopian declaration of confidence in a hopeless world, as Marx’s “specter of communism” once was, and is. While Cindy is never met again in the game, it is the refusal to abandon the desires and belief contained in her graffiti that allows for supreme optimism when nothing but loss and defeat seem possible."
https://medium.com/@rose.elizabeth.dubois/one-day-i-will-return-to-your-side-disco-elysium-and-hauntology-619a6654f16a
https://medium.com/@rose.elizabeth.dubois/one-day-i-will-return-to-your-side-disco-elysium-and-hauntology-619a6654f16a
@Flatterdorsch Thanks for sharing that article. I think I need to just hunker down and actually read some Mark Fisher at this point, because a bunch of my favorite works take a lot of inspiration from him, but I've only heard about him through secondhand essays. Much to think on.
Hot_Anarcocoa
3 years ago