Pretty easy to be better than games that are three decades old

@JCLKaytwo not exactly lol

@NOWITSREYNTIME17 If you're referring to platformers, then yeah it is pretty easy. The genre has evolved immensely since 1990. Let's not dwell in the past.

I'm just saying, I've played many modern platformers and my top 2 are still snes games so I just dont think that's totally the case. Hearing how this game is so easy makes me think it definitely wont surpass those 2

@OWITSREYNTIME17 Would I be correct to assume that your top two contains at least one of Mario World and Yoshi's Island? Because those two games are brutally easy lol

There's no way you've played that many modern platformers and your top 2 is still so far in the past. I think that says more about your underlying preference towards old games than anything about the games' quality.

Alright I'm not getting into this, I just dont agree with argument is all

Either way that's good to hear it's so good magus, cant wait to dive in!

@JCLKaytwo You'd think so but that's rarely the case. Inflated dev time and costs leads to safer games that often don't even feature as much as their older counterparts. One off indie projects aside, huge companies often struggle to reach the heights from before every game needed to be obnoxiously overproduced. There's some excellent games these days of course but as far as long running franchises go, it's not uncommon for the 20+ year old versions to be better. You're technically not wrong, it shouldn't be hard to surpass such old games. And yet in practice this series has gone over 25 years without doing so. The directions the industry took over time makes it more of a challenge than it probably should be.

Which is why I'm excited to hear this may actually aim to dethrone some old kings, this game wouldn't be as hyped up if Nintendo...Or really any other major studio was putting out 2D platformers as good as world consistently.

@Poefred That's the thing, I agree that modern corporate ideologies do frequently prevent games from surpassing their classic predecessors-- the NSMB series is a good example-- but while 2D Mario has been stagnant, the 2D platformer genre has been anything but. I'm more referring to the weird Mario World circlejerk that acts like it's the unbeatable pinnacle of game design, when the 2D platformer genre really has evolved significantly over the decades and has left 2D Mario in the dust. In this case, the thirty-year old game really does feels like a thirty-year old game. Mario Wonder thoroughly feels like the first 2D Mario to try and live up to modern standards.

What I'm trying to say is, it's really not that exciting a feat that this game may live up to Mario 3 and World. It would be exciting, however, if it lived up to the likes of Celeste, Tropical Freeze, or Rayman Legends.

@poefred get this man a true

I'll have to wait and see what my take on this game is in particular once I get my hands on it. Like yeah it might seem a bit of a free pass to go Finally we get a game as good as what we USED to get 30 years ago. But also it's important to note the kind of game it is. Celeste is an excellent game but I wouldn't say it's what I'd want out of a 2D mario game. It's an entirely different flavor of platformer. Kind of like if a new 3D collectathon platformer came out and people said "Finally something as good as Banjo!" but then someone asks "But is it really as good as Crash 4 though?".

And I'd rather not get into Rayman legends and Tropical freeze so as not to blow up this fella's review with irrelevant debates. But they're definitely closer to being Mario-style platformers for sure. They're both good games but I wouldn't really find them that hard to surpass honestly. Especially considering I don't even think Tropical Freeze surpasses its OWN 30 year old predecessors. I'd be surprised if Wonder didn't at least match their quality tbh.

But yeah if I end up liking Wonder as much as I like Celeste I'll be a happy camper~

@poefred I definitely like tropical freeze more than you but youre kinda right, i also dont think it surpassed dkc2

@Poefred I hate to be "that" kind of guy but I was looking through your ratings and saw you gave Mario World a 10/10, Tropical Freeze a 6, and the Mario Galaxies a 4 and 3(!!!). And then that score for Balan Wonderworld kind of speaks for itself.
I don't think we're ever gonna see eye to eye when it comes to platformers.

@JCLKaytwo Idk, we line up at points. Yoshi's island and DKC2 are excellent. Metroid's based. DKC3, Mario Land 2, and celeste are hot stuff. Sunshine enjoyers rise up.
And Balan Wonderworld is a unique case in which what the game presents itself as is a complete joke not a single soul would actually enjoy, but it's got a really strong appeal it just hides from the average player. The game's a 4/10 if you're being generous if you play it like how it presents itself.

I typed up a more in-depth response as to why I think World does hold up over a lot of modern popular picks but I'll share it as a comment on your review as it ended up being more of a direct response to that. 'Cuz judging from Magus's scores they're likely just referring to how 2D mario's been for decades and not the bigger picture of how it relates to the entire genre.

@Poefred That is true. Cherrypicking ratings I disagree with is admittedly a pretty lazy argument, that's why I said I didn't want to be that guy. Perhaps a better way to word it is that there are definitely things we agree on, but I do think overall we look for very different things in our platformers. Still, I appreciate your openness for positive discussion despite our disagreements.

I have read your review on Mario World and I also appreciate your perspective on that game. It's certainly the argument I've seen the most when it comes to Mario World's appeal, but I just personally don't get it at all. Secrets are not unique to Mario World, and platformers both before and after it have utilized most of those same concepts extensively. And all Mario World's secrets do is let you skip most of the game on a casual playthrough, and let you play some extra levels on a completionist playthrough. It's nowhere near as rewarding as, say, the collectible system in most modern Mario-style platformers. Especially compared to the way DKC2 does it, which is imo the pinnacle of exploration-encouragement in a platformer, or a game like NSMBU which uses literally the exact same secret exit system as Mario World but with collectables to add replay value.

And as for your reply to my Mario World review, I'll respond to that later. It's a bit of a lengthy read lol