excellent. intelligent design and writing with lovely music and character designs.
coming right off the development of what were just choice-driven adventure games, this is an amazing attempt from Enix to distill open ended 80s computer roleplaying down into a simpler format. I think it's no exaggeration to say that this game is a big part of why the video game industry today is obsessed with games that have (at least on the surface) large scopes and open ended gameplay.
this game is now characterised as being a basic grindfest, but the truth is that it allows for different approaches to completing objectives without necessitating constant grinding. the game will slowly provide you with new tools such as status effect spells and navigational assistance, then leave it up to you to figure out the best strategies that utilise them. case in point: I completed all but the very last objective at level 13, making maps and taking notes of hints without sticking my nose in walkthroughs and going through other people's motions. I even rescued the princess at just level 10! dragon quest is an adventure, not a checklist.
I really can't understand where people are coming from when they say the game needs guides, has hours upon hours of constant grinding, lacks any real strategy, etc... I think that's a failure on their part and nothing to do with the game.
it's a smart first entry that understands what makes itself fun. unfortunately, the game has received less than ideal translation and porting treatments that simply cheapen the experience. if you want the ideal way to experience DQ1 then play it on NES with this excellent retranslation patch, much care and love has gone into it: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4275/
coming right off the development of what were just choice-driven adventure games, this is an amazing attempt from Enix to distill open ended 80s computer roleplaying down into a simpler format. I think it's no exaggeration to say that this game is a big part of why the video game industry today is obsessed with games that have (at least on the surface) large scopes and open ended gameplay.
this game is now characterised as being a basic grindfest, but the truth is that it allows for different approaches to completing objectives without necessitating constant grinding. the game will slowly provide you with new tools such as status effect spells and navigational assistance, then leave it up to you to figure out the best strategies that utilise them. case in point: I completed all but the very last objective at level 13, making maps and taking notes of hints without sticking my nose in walkthroughs and going through other people's motions. I even rescued the princess at just level 10! dragon quest is an adventure, not a checklist.
I really can't understand where people are coming from when they say the game needs guides, has hours upon hours of constant grinding, lacks any real strategy, etc... I think that's a failure on their part and nothing to do with the game.
it's a smart first entry that understands what makes itself fun. unfortunately, the game has received less than ideal translation and porting treatments that simply cheapen the experience. if you want the ideal way to experience DQ1 then play it on NES with this excellent retranslation patch, much care and love has gone into it: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4275/
25 Comments
it's no beatdown fists of vengeance
It may not have "hours upon hours of constant grinding" but that's probably only because the game is relatively short. Grinding is a significant, unavoidable portion of the experience. You have a lower chance of winning the lottery than making it to Erdrick's Tablet without grinding--even the speedrun, which manipulates the RNG for the most beneficial result possible, still has grinding.
yeah you do grind in it, but it's exaggerated was the point I was making
actually the only point in the game I would consider a big grind is right at the end, getting strong enough to beat the final boss. the game hands you a bunch of shit like passive healing armour to make it pretty much painless. before that I'd only actively level myself up once every so often if I felt like I wanted the extra stat boost.
I did this in ten minutes just to prove a point lol https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/730690199268491317/843235602894815252/06b9a362107fa71cdc9c3cb5df6f5502.png
I admittedly made the dumb mistake of thinking Erdrick's Cave had encounters, but the point still remains because you're not killing anything stronger than a drakee at level 1 even if you get lucky enough to reach Garinham (and somehow have money to buy equipment?). But I'll concede that I'm "owned", or whatever, if it helps you make your non-point.
I suppose I should make this perfectly clear, in case history repeats itself: I am not at all interested in your desperate attempts to "well, actually" me in a bid to claim that this demonstrably grind-driven game, which has been emblematic of grind itself for as long as JRPGs have had a fanbase, is somehow not grind-driven. But thanks for reminding me why I generally don't talk about video games with strangers anymore.
shut up schizo
LMAO i went & got my oil changed on my junker and they claimed they checked my tires to have them all at 35 psi. No shit, i knew my rear drivers had a leak, so when i got home it was at 18psi, as i expected. They never asked me if i wanted conventual oil so i knew somethin was up
Everytime the "you don't need to grind" shows up in a JRPG sounds like "you don't need to jump to complete Mario 64". While not a lie, playing in the most twisted unintended way possible doesn't mean that the game isn't what it is.
When is grinding ever intentional in other JRPGs, ignoring Dragon Quest which is pretty grindy at the end regardless, you can usually just play the game normally (just fighting as you go along, etc) and you're fine tho. Tbh it comes off like most people get annoyed at JRPGs because they try to game the system instead of just going through the game at an average pace. Grinding isn't a core part of JRPGs, it's something you can do but it's pretty much never intended design
explain to me how using the sleep spell to put the green dragon to sleep to beat him at level 10 is "unintended"
starting to think you guys just don't like RPGs...
starting to think you guys just don't like RPGs...
Even if you put the dragon to sleep at the very end of the game you will encounter that you have to level up, that is the final stance of the game. And while putting the dragon to sleep is an alternative the game has a very much stronger emphasis towards mindless grinding (not like being able to put the dragon to sleep doesn't require grinding before either, but anyway). Solving situations like putting the dragon to sleep tend to be the exception, not the norm (let alone when it's compared to JRPGs overall and not just in here).
I don't think it's nice to say either "you just don't like X genre", like a whole genre couldn't be constructed upon very questionable foundations. Worse when that genre has been keeping on building upon that for so many years (also very conservatively), to the point where those flawed standards automatically seem to get unquestionable. Worse with RPGs as you say because, as far as I know, RPGs don't need grinding or any of the obsession with numbers that DQ is built upon.
There are tabletop RPG games that do not depend on any numbers whatsoever and even with videogames you can easily find a lot of RPGs that do not have any kind of grinding or anything remotely similar. In this same game, would there be really that much lost if any kind of grinding was completely removed? Would it be that bad if 90% of the combats that are resolved the same way were reduced? Just imagine a Dragon Quest where every encounter is thinking out of the box and finding a way to go through by yourself, just like when you putted the dragon to sleep. That's what I would call a proper adventure.
(Weird disclaimer, but you can obviously still love the game in spite of the grinding or because the game did something interesting with said grinding. I just think that justifying because "it isn't that much" doesn't do any good to anyone.)
I don't think it's nice to say either "you just don't like X genre", like a whole genre couldn't be constructed upon very questionable foundations. Worse when that genre has been keeping on building upon that for so many years (also very conservatively), to the point where those flawed standards automatically seem to get unquestionable. Worse with RPGs as you say because, as far as I know, RPGs don't need grinding or any of the obsession with numbers that DQ is built upon.
There are tabletop RPG games that do not depend on any numbers whatsoever and even with videogames you can easily find a lot of RPGs that do not have any kind of grinding or anything remotely similar. In this same game, would there be really that much lost if any kind of grinding was completely removed? Would it be that bad if 90% of the combats that are resolved the same way were reduced? Just imagine a Dragon Quest where every encounter is thinking out of the box and finding a way to go through by yourself, just like when you putted the dragon to sleep. That's what I would call a proper adventure.
(Weird disclaimer, but you can obviously still love the game in spite of the grinding or because the game did something interesting with said grinding. I just think that justifying because "it isn't that much" doesn't do any good to anyone.)
doesn't understand the genre ^^
Gonzo should watch Contrapoints videos. He can deradicalize his dragon quest opinions.
lmfao
When I played dragon quest on mobile, I found a game that was breezy, challenging, enthralling with constant decision-making, stuffed with adventure, and never needed grinding.
You're probably right about the NES version not being designed for it too, but I feel like it was made at a time where they expected the player to get more lost and spend more time on the game in general than we do now. The game was just really difficult and I died a lot, so I can see how people would think grinding would be the best solution, but I think it's just that way cause people are meant to explore the continent. I personally think the mobile version is a better game to play without sacrificing any of the good stuff.
That being said, I don't grind in rpgs. If I can't beat something, I go over my tactics and strats, and if I still can't win, I'll make a point to explore other parts of the game and fulfill some other objectives and come back to the fight later, which is light-years better than grinding mindlessly.
If there's really nothing else to do in a game but grind, I usually give up playing it.
Dragon quest definitely does not have an obsession with numbers or grinding, it is one of the most refreshing RPG series in the genre because of that.
Sure the numbers matter in that they reflect your choices in gameplay greater than other games, but they are not there to be inflated by arbitrary designs of attrition
You're probably right about the NES version not being designed for it too, but I feel like it was made at a time where they expected the player to get more lost and spend more time on the game in general than we do now. The game was just really difficult and I died a lot, so I can see how people would think grinding would be the best solution, but I think it's just that way cause people are meant to explore the continent. I personally think the mobile version is a better game to play without sacrificing any of the good stuff.
That being said, I don't grind in rpgs. If I can't beat something, I go over my tactics and strats, and if I still can't win, I'll make a point to explore other parts of the game and fulfill some other objectives and come back to the fight later, which is light-years better than grinding mindlessly.
If there's really nothing else to do in a game but grind, I usually give up playing it.
Dragon quest definitely does not have an obsession with numbers or grinding, it is one of the most refreshing RPG series in the genre because of that.
Sure the numbers matter in that they reflect your choices in gameplay greater than other games, but they are not there to be inflated by arbitrary designs of attrition
im gay
thanks for the comment dwardman :)
I think the NES balance is just right. the lower payouts seem like a subtle encouragement to just take the game as it is, since grinding up levels can be a slow endeavour. from what I hear the mobile ports raise most of the payouts, which could lead to people feeling more inclined to grind. maybe a better solution would have been to lower the later EXP milestones? I'll play the remakes eventually to get a fuller picture, but right now the originals seem great.
I beat this game over 1-2 weeks while taking my time, which seems like a decent length to me. I don't like the idea of trying to trim down games so they can be declared "beaten" in as little time as possible.
the natural progression via exploration is definitely right on, which makes me wonder just how many of the other users here on this site played this game without looking at walkthroughs...
and I agree with the numbers bit. this game especially feels more up to dice rolls than anything, much like the 80s games it's based on (not played Ultima yet, but Wizardry 1-3 definitely prepped me for how much chance can impact your battles). I'm a little ignorant on the state of CRPGs nowadays, how many games follow the traditional dice roll method of calculating damage? seems like most JRPGs now stick to the more static and predictable kinds of formulas.
I think the NES balance is just right. the lower payouts seem like a subtle encouragement to just take the game as it is, since grinding up levels can be a slow endeavour. from what I hear the mobile ports raise most of the payouts, which could lead to people feeling more inclined to grind. maybe a better solution would have been to lower the later EXP milestones? I'll play the remakes eventually to get a fuller picture, but right now the originals seem great.
I beat this game over 1-2 weeks while taking my time, which seems like a decent length to me. I don't like the idea of trying to trim down games so they can be declared "beaten" in as little time as possible.
the natural progression via exploration is definitely right on, which makes me wonder just how many of the other users here on this site played this game without looking at walkthroughs...
and I agree with the numbers bit. this game especially feels more up to dice rolls than anything, much like the 80s games it's based on (not played Ultima yet, but Wizardry 1-3 definitely prepped me for how much chance can impact your battles). I'm a little ignorant on the state of CRPGs nowadays, how many games follow the traditional dice roll method of calculating damage? seems like most JRPGs now stick to the more static and predictable kinds of formulas.
I'd say most RPGs really are not grindy like most people say (feels like a complaint from people who pick grindy RPGs or very old ones), but DQ1 when I finished it on NES...I'd definitely say it is on the grindy side. I do think playing it as intended, without any guides, causes it to be less grindy because you get into random encounters while exploring that help level you up (this is an aspect I've been thinking on with a fair amount of old RPGs, as they were made with that intention).
But you do pretty much need to grind for the final boss, and unless you are very good at the game (or get very lucky with status) you'll need to spend a fair amount of time on the grind. Pretty comical if NES dragon Quest is being used as emblematic of some larger grinding issue though.
(I'd also say that grinding isn't ALWAYS bad, but it depends on the game. Leveling up and plotting out a team in Pokemon is fun when you're playing it alongside doing something else, for example, did that a lot when exercising.)
But you do pretty much need to grind for the final boss, and unless you are very good at the game (or get very lucky with status) you'll need to spend a fair amount of time on the grind. Pretty comical if NES dragon Quest is being used as emblematic of some larger grinding issue though.
(I'd also say that grinding isn't ALWAYS bad, but it depends on the game. Leveling up and plotting out a team in Pokemon is fun when you're playing it alongside doing something else, for example, did that a lot when exercising.)
Anyone who needs a guide to beat dragon quest 1 should probably work on their reading comprehension. Dragon quest 2? Sure there's a part in that where you'd be searching forever without one, but 1 is easy to beat without using one
thanks for the comment. i mentioned the new versions in a previous comment (called it mobile but I think it's basically unchanged since SNES/GBC) and that's pretty much it, I'll try and play through them later. played dq2 since this and that's probably one DQ game where I'll appreciate the redo more than this one's lol
yea I got discord. I'm pretty out of it these days so I don't have much to say but I don't mind.
I'll post my handle in another comment and delete it later
yea I got discord. I'm pretty out of it these days so I don't have much to say but I don't mind.
I'll post my handle in another comment and delete it later
ZCGonzo#7092
Gonzo sends me Cow hypnosis on discord, do not trust him.
JabroniAbuser677
2 years ago