there's often too much emphasis placed on the value of narrative that is intrinsically gamey - stories that 'can only be told within the parameters and constructs of a game'. the idea here is simple: one wants to demonstrate the value their medium can bring to the table, so naturally any stories that can 'only' exist as a game and would face extreme adaptational hurdles presents the most appealing case for games as art.
i think this line of thought is suffocating, though. leaving aside the fact that this thwarts and diminishes the potential and creativity of other mediums in adaptation, the kinds of narratives that are lauded for best-in-class video game storytelling are often entirely subservient to structure or gimmick, or engage in reflexive and banal meta exercises. what's more, i'd posit that most (maybe even all) video game narratives are only feasible within the context of video games. taking play seriously means looking for the syntax linking the abstraction of mechanics to traditional forms of storytelling and presentation and the bearing that the coalescence of the two has on emotion and thought.
all this is to say that 13 sentinels represents another homecoming for the 'stories that are beholden to complex ADV structure' genre, and that it distinguishes itself from the usual suspects with nothing but endearing and unrelenting passion for its subject matter while considering some surprisingly insightful meditations on japans relationship to the media environment its fostered since the post-war era. character interactions are really fun and they're easy to get attached to, its breezy and freeform format makes for some incredibly comfortable gaming, and yes - it takes a lot of skill to hold a narrative this ridiculously convoluted together. 13 sentinels is practically bursting at the seams, but it's pretty sharp in how it chooses to disseminate its key narrative points. i also found it refreshing in that its far more shoujo than it is shonen.
this is really more of a pulpy 3.5 than a 4 - it's pretty scuffed mechanically and even structurally. it loses a significant amount of steam in the last quarter of the game (having exhausted a lot of its appeal and doing itself no favours when the emotional resonance the final battle should have fails to land), its RTS component can be exhilirating but fails to integrate itself as essential within the ADV structure and is often unbalanced to its own detriment, and certain characters get relegated to expository mouthpieces with only the occasional bursts of charm buoying their place within the game (gouto being the primary offender here).
still, how can i argue with a game in which ultimately, the brash and youthful human spirit triumphs over the petty squabbles and needlessly labyrinthine overcomplications of adults?
i think this line of thought is suffocating, though. leaving aside the fact that this thwarts and diminishes the potential and creativity of other mediums in adaptation, the kinds of narratives that are lauded for best-in-class video game storytelling are often entirely subservient to structure or gimmick, or engage in reflexive and banal meta exercises. what's more, i'd posit that most (maybe even all) video game narratives are only feasible within the context of video games. taking play seriously means looking for the syntax linking the abstraction of mechanics to traditional forms of storytelling and presentation and the bearing that the coalescence of the two has on emotion and thought.
all this is to say that 13 sentinels represents another homecoming for the 'stories that are beholden to complex ADV structure' genre, and that it distinguishes itself from the usual suspects with nothing but endearing and unrelenting passion for its subject matter while considering some surprisingly insightful meditations on japans relationship to the media environment its fostered since the post-war era. character interactions are really fun and they're easy to get attached to, its breezy and freeform format makes for some incredibly comfortable gaming, and yes - it takes a lot of skill to hold a narrative this ridiculously convoluted together. 13 sentinels is practically bursting at the seams, but it's pretty sharp in how it chooses to disseminate its key narrative points. i also found it refreshing in that its far more shoujo than it is shonen.
this is really more of a pulpy 3.5 than a 4 - it's pretty scuffed mechanically and even structurally. it loses a significant amount of steam in the last quarter of the game (having exhausted a lot of its appeal and doing itself no favours when the emotional resonance the final battle should have fails to land), its RTS component can be exhilirating but fails to integrate itself as essential within the ADV structure and is often unbalanced to its own detriment, and certain characters get relegated to expository mouthpieces with only the occasional bursts of charm buoying their place within the game (gouto being the primary offender here).
still, how can i argue with a game in which ultimately, the brash and youthful human spirit triumphs over the petty squabbles and needlessly labyrinthine overcomplications of adults?
13 Comments
you may have convinced me to give this another shot, i've played the first few hours and i don't think i ever really recovered from the initial shock of the possibility space offered all the "ooh this game is amazing but i can't tell you anything about it that would spoil it" framing the game is given online immediately collapsing into "anime Homestuck occasionally interrupted by Darling in the Franxx". i think having another lens to look at the game through might actually allow me to get through it without being too cynical to give it a chance ha
Nice to see you on here again more regularly, man! Very much agree that sometimes people seem to think that some ways of approaching narrative in games are inherently better than others and I don't think that's true at all
I definitely agree that people seem to bizarrely limit themselves when it comes to "it can only be told within a game" for narratives and stories, since I don't find that criteria THAT interesting, and many games that COULD be told outside of a game can still benefit from it (Persona 3 for example). But also just that I don't really think the quality of an art form is really related to how much it can ONLY exist as that medium. Adaptations can be fun, even!
I don't really think narratives in that style are intristically bad either, I just think they aren't all that special, or some evolution of Gaming Stories.
I don't really think narratives in that style are intristically bad either, I just think they aren't all that special, or some evolution of Gaming Stories.
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I think the puzzle sections in the story sections are a great justification of the game format, moreso than the fact that there’s 13 narratives. Many people call 13S a VN which I think is erroneous, as the presentation and puzzles are far more reminiscent of PnC adventure games, and the way they’re presented as loops that you need to break free from feels appropriate and satisfying to solve. Probably could’ve gone harder on it if they risk the narrative cohesiveness but I’m fine with where it is.
Definitely something where I’m more forgiving for some of the endgame fumbles just because that heart is so strong and beating even through them.
Definitely something where I’m more forgiving for some of the endgame fumbles just because that heart is so strong and beating even through them.
what are some examples of what you speak of? I'm a bit out of the loop, usually. also banger of a review, I really want to check this one out
Really interesting thoughts on its narrative structure, well done!
Can't say I agree on it losing steam at the end though, the his Remembrance scenes near the endgame were some of the most cathartic parts of the whole experience.
Can't say I agree on it losing steam at the end though, the his Remembrance scenes near the endgame were some of the most cathartic parts of the whole experience.
thanks for all the kind words everyone! gonna work thru a few of em
@Woodaba honestly im still not sure if you'd like it or not but if nothing else i'm glad that you're willing to give it another shot!
@Hylianhero777 thanks! mostly just got lazy and didn't want to write. still don't in some ways, but it kills time
@FrozenRoy yeah, ive got nothing against the format inherently, but it is a bit tiresome to see such examples constantly cited as the peak
@Archagent fair i guess but it is a vanillaware title first and foremost, atlus is only publishing
@Rellni944 i liked the 'loop'-esque structure of the protagonists' segments but i thought the puzzles in them weren't that strong, mostly i kept trucking to see how the characters would respond to their scenarios. you're 100% right that it's got a big beating heart and that's kind of why i let it off the hook a bit, although i do find some elements of the ending a bit vexing. friend was tellin me - apparently at one point each protagonist had 12 different scenarios lol. kind of ridiculous ambition here even still
@planet_struck hmm mostly stuff like anything uchikoshi has had a hand in (zero escape series, remember11, ever17, to cite a few), spec ops: the line, undertale, things in which interfacing is integral to the makeup of the game's themes (eg: soma for instance), even games i really do like such as the silver case trilogy. honestly a lot of games fit within this fairly broad umbrella but disappointingly a fair amount of them tend to just comment on the mechanics of games themselves or prefer a kind of eclectic delivery over thematic cohesion (eg nine hours nine persons nine doors)
@Woodaba honestly im still not sure if you'd like it or not but if nothing else i'm glad that you're willing to give it another shot!
@Hylianhero777 thanks! mostly just got lazy and didn't want to write. still don't in some ways, but it kills time
@FrozenRoy yeah, ive got nothing against the format inherently, but it is a bit tiresome to see such examples constantly cited as the peak
@Archagent fair i guess but it is a vanillaware title first and foremost, atlus is only publishing
@Rellni944 i liked the 'loop'-esque structure of the protagonists' segments but i thought the puzzles in them weren't that strong, mostly i kept trucking to see how the characters would respond to their scenarios. you're 100% right that it's got a big beating heart and that's kind of why i let it off the hook a bit, although i do find some elements of the ending a bit vexing. friend was tellin me - apparently at one point each protagonist had 12 different scenarios lol. kind of ridiculous ambition here even still
@planet_struck hmm mostly stuff like anything uchikoshi has had a hand in (zero escape series, remember11, ever17, to cite a few), spec ops: the line, undertale, things in which interfacing is integral to the makeup of the game's themes (eg: soma for instance), even games i really do like such as the silver case trilogy. honestly a lot of games fit within this fairly broad umbrella but disappointingly a fair amount of them tend to just comment on the mechanics of games themselves or prefer a kind of eclectic delivery over thematic cohesion (eg nine hours nine persons nine doors)
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assuming "Atlus" games are shit because Atlus...imagine not playing trauma center
@kingbancho Fair! While I've played few of those, when things like the "interfacing" hits right, it hits good. But honestly if there is some discourse about narrative's truth to the medium (etc) then it's like interpretation doesn't exist huh (or there was nothing worthwhile to say in the first place)--and on that note, I'm also sure it's a solid mixed bag as well. "taking play seriously means looking for the syntax linking the abstraction of mechanics to traditional forms of storytelling and presentation and the bearing that the coalescence of the two has on emotion and thought." On the head with this!
@kingbancho I don't think the puzzles are smart in terms of design but like... I think it fits thematically into what 13S is going for as it requires the player to actively interrogate the world as the characters do. As for the ambition of the narrative structure, I would highly recommend checking out Odin Sphere Leifthrasir (or the original if you really want the jank), you can definitely see how Vanillaware was interesting in multiple intertwining storylines from early in their career and the DNA still shows in 13S despite the wildly different genre and relative simplicity of OS.
Awesome review! I noticed your scored lowered considerably since the publication of this review, considering I enjoy reading your thoughts on games I'd like to ask if time happened to change a bit of your perspective on the work. 13S was received with quite a lot of fanfare on its release by a lot of people I know so it interests me that it seems to not linger much in the mind of any of those who first praised it.
@deadlydonut thanks for the kind words! i don't really have anything in-depth to report, but it really is as you said - after the initial high of running through the game, for me it just doesn't have anything of substance that leaves me continuing to think about it, it doesn't really occupy a space in my brain and heart anymore and i don't really have the same fondness for it that i used to (ending is kind of bad, also, which was true when i wrote this as well, but that's a subject for another time). it's very zero escape in that way, even if i think 13S is better than the zero escape games. this title's still gorgeous and i certainly don't regret having played it - it would be cool to get another ADV game from vanillaware sometime for sure.
Djungelskog
1 year ago