My original review for Persona 4 read "eeeeuuuugghhhghhhhgghghghghhgghgfhfghfdgsdhfgfdg". That is basically the full extent of my thoughts on this game, but I feel the need to elucidate further anyways.
I am not going to comment on the portrayal and handling of LGBT themes in this game. Instead I will state that the way that Kanji and Naoto are portrayed and handled is not even a particularly unique problem, and is representative of the greater issue with the game at large: Persona 4 has absolutely nothing to say, and any attempts at a greater statement it dares to make fall flat after it makes one or two steps.
On paper, the formula behind every member of the main cast of Persona 4 is as follows: person has problem or insecurity they feel ashamed of, person faces and accepts this issue as a part of themselves, person now feels comfortable in their own skin having accepted themselves inside and out. In execution, it is usually an exercise in characters repressing any divergent tendencies they might have and falling in with the rest of society and pretending like they're fine with that.
The problem is not that Naoto is not portrayed as a trans man, it is that any possibility of the character being anything but a cisgender woman is immediately stamped out and dismissed as something that must be "overcome" rather than being a unique quirk that is uniquely a part of her identity that she is allowed to embrace and feel proud of. The problem is not that Kanji's sexuality is only implied at best and a target of harassment at worst, it is that attraction to men is treated as something to be ashamed of and then never addressed as anything but a fallacy that he could not possibly accept or be accepted for in turn. You can say the same for Chie and Yosuke's shared resolution to live in the background of their own lives despite a shared desire to stand out and be recognized as individuals, for Rise's decision to submit herself to the grueling grind of idol culture in spite of her discomfort with being perceived as an ideal rather than an individual, for Yukiko's decision to remain tied to the family business rather than pursuing her individual dreams, and for Teddie's... well, Teddie's actually handled pretty well. A bit ham-fisted and underdeveloped sure, but I dunno why everybody seems to think he's so annoying.
Now, the characters' arcs almost universally being bungled and prone to ball-dropping could be forgiven if the actual plot itself had anything meaningful or remarkable to say, but... it doesn't. The game ostensibly prides itself as being about the abstract concept of truth, but it doesn't really... have anything impactful to say about some vague ramblings about "people only seeing what they want to see" (again, pretty regressive considering the main cast exclusively deals with people who feel ostracized from society for not fitting the status quo) and fails to deliver on it with the plot itself, which is effectively a long string of "gotcha!"s by dangling one false antagonist in front of the player after another until ending with a rushed and out-of-left-field climax that is only foreshadowed by some sidelines imagery in the school lessons and the protagonist's Persona.
What, exactly, does this have to say? Don't accept any answers but your own personal truth, and that "truth" as a whole is subjective? Okay, cool, that's great! All four of the major-player parties in the plot proper support this theory, as they all sincerely believe themselves to be justified in their actions and the "hero" of the narrative. It's a solid idea! However, this is directly backtracked upon by the aforementioned issues of the main cast's own "truth" being downplayed as something that has to be grown out of and dismissed when faced instead of embraced and embodied.
The game's writing culminates in nothing and refuses to commit to some of its genuinely great ideas or follow up on the strong foundations that it sets. Even the hokey theme about "the power of bonds" basically turns to nothing in the end because the protagonist is forced to leave his friends behind and return to his home in the big city. I honestly think that Persona 4 even fails as a social simulator considering that it's a sequel to Persona 3 (which I will admit is my favorite game of all time, a fact that heavily imparts bias onto my perception of Persona 4), which deliberately used mechanics such as the social link and calendar systems as an extension of its themes and as tools with which it deconstructs and plays with what's expected of visual novels, dating simulators and social simulators. Not only does Persona 4 fail to do anything interesting thematically or narratively with these elements as Persona 3 does (the "self-insert" dating sim protagonist trope of being a silent blank slate played straight and the protagonist's eerie, emotionless disposition actively creeping out and upsetting other characters for example, or the limited calendar dates reflecting the game's theme of mortality and making the most out of life while it lasts). It commits the cardinal sin of being a sequel that does nothing to build upon its predecessor or follow up on what it established, and seems determined to actively undo everything Persona 3 had achieved, from its more standard dating sim experience to its warm and chipper atmosphere.
Mechanically it's... it's fine, I guess. It's a generic JRPG. Some dislike the RNG dungeons, I personally really like them. Fusing and creating Personae is really satisfying and addicting as it always is. It gets piss-easy towards the end especially if you've built your characters properly, but I really like the "bonus dungeon" added in Golden for the reason that it so heavily restricts your characters and forces you to think outside whatever strategy you've been using to sweep the last three or four dungeons. The combo attacks/bonus actions from dormant party members are cute.
In spite of the time I've just spent ripping Persona 4 a new one I don't entirely loathe it it. I kind of love it for what it is, and that's a horrifically fucked up and flawed game that happens to have a few really good things going for it. As a whole I think the social links are the best in the stories as individual stories (the Dojimas stand out in particular, and Marie has the honor of being my favorite social link in the series). When it's not being oppressively backwards-assed, the atmosphere is really unique and captures the uneasy nothingness of growing up in a small town really well. The music and washed-out aesthetic of the game engine really drives home the unique atmosphere, which is simultaneously a little stilted and eerie while also feeling warm and inviting. I do feel a weird sense of connection to the Investigation Team despite the fact that I never once thought they were friends and spend much of their time together riffing on one another and treating each other like shit. Some moments in the story, as poorly structured as it is, really do hit home and manage to evoke a strong emotional reaction out of me (though they're usually undone literally the next second so the bliss is brief at best). The main antagonist of the game is my favorite in the series; for the scant moments and single in-game day that they directly appear they manage to exhibit a large amount of nuance and complexity that I feel Persona antagonists generally have a hard time capturing.
I don't fucking know, man. This game fucking sucks but I also don't feel like it'd be correct to call it a bad game.
Just read the manga. The writing in that one is way different and doesn't have almost any of the issues with the I've mentioned in this review, with every character and topic being handled with much more nuance than Atlus was evidently capable of putting forth back in 2008, and I find Souji Seta to be a much more palatable and interesting character than the game's blank slate or Yu Narukami, the cardinal douchebag portrayal seen in the spinoffs and anime.
God. I hate Persona 4. I also think about it quite often. 2.5 stars - exactly half on the scale, because it's every bit as aggressively terrible as it is uniquely and bizarrely excellent.
tl;dr eeeeuuuugghhhghhhhgghghghghhgghgfhfghfdgsdhfgfdg
I am not going to comment on the portrayal and handling of LGBT themes in this game. Instead I will state that the way that Kanji and Naoto are portrayed and handled is not even a particularly unique problem, and is representative of the greater issue with the game at large: Persona 4 has absolutely nothing to say, and any attempts at a greater statement it dares to make fall flat after it makes one or two steps.
On paper, the formula behind every member of the main cast of Persona 4 is as follows: person has problem or insecurity they feel ashamed of, person faces and accepts this issue as a part of themselves, person now feels comfortable in their own skin having accepted themselves inside and out. In execution, it is usually an exercise in characters repressing any divergent tendencies they might have and falling in with the rest of society and pretending like they're fine with that.
The problem is not that Naoto is not portrayed as a trans man, it is that any possibility of the character being anything but a cisgender woman is immediately stamped out and dismissed as something that must be "overcome" rather than being a unique quirk that is uniquely a part of her identity that she is allowed to embrace and feel proud of. The problem is not that Kanji's sexuality is only implied at best and a target of harassment at worst, it is that attraction to men is treated as something to be ashamed of and then never addressed as anything but a fallacy that he could not possibly accept or be accepted for in turn. You can say the same for Chie and Yosuke's shared resolution to live in the background of their own lives despite a shared desire to stand out and be recognized as individuals, for Rise's decision to submit herself to the grueling grind of idol culture in spite of her discomfort with being perceived as an ideal rather than an individual, for Yukiko's decision to remain tied to the family business rather than pursuing her individual dreams, and for Teddie's... well, Teddie's actually handled pretty well. A bit ham-fisted and underdeveloped sure, but I dunno why everybody seems to think he's so annoying.
Now, the characters' arcs almost universally being bungled and prone to ball-dropping could be forgiven if the actual plot itself had anything meaningful or remarkable to say, but... it doesn't. The game ostensibly prides itself as being about the abstract concept of truth, but it doesn't really... have anything impactful to say about some vague ramblings about "people only seeing what they want to see" (again, pretty regressive considering the main cast exclusively deals with people who feel ostracized from society for not fitting the status quo) and fails to deliver on it with the plot itself, which is effectively a long string of "gotcha!"s by dangling one false antagonist in front of the player after another until ending with a rushed and out-of-left-field climax that is only foreshadowed by some sidelines imagery in the school lessons and the protagonist's Persona.
What, exactly, does this have to say? Don't accept any answers but your own personal truth, and that "truth" as a whole is subjective? Okay, cool, that's great! All four of the major-player parties in the plot proper support this theory, as they all sincerely believe themselves to be justified in their actions and the "hero" of the narrative. It's a solid idea! However, this is directly backtracked upon by the aforementioned issues of the main cast's own "truth" being downplayed as something that has to be grown out of and dismissed when faced instead of embraced and embodied.
The game's writing culminates in nothing and refuses to commit to some of its genuinely great ideas or follow up on the strong foundations that it sets. Even the hokey theme about "the power of bonds" basically turns to nothing in the end because the protagonist is forced to leave his friends behind and return to his home in the big city. I honestly think that Persona 4 even fails as a social simulator considering that it's a sequel to Persona 3 (which I will admit is my favorite game of all time, a fact that heavily imparts bias onto my perception of Persona 4), which deliberately used mechanics such as the social link and calendar systems as an extension of its themes and as tools with which it deconstructs and plays with what's expected of visual novels, dating simulators and social simulators. Not only does Persona 4 fail to do anything interesting thematically or narratively with these elements as Persona 3 does (the "self-insert" dating sim protagonist trope of being a silent blank slate played straight and the protagonist's eerie, emotionless disposition actively creeping out and upsetting other characters for example, or the limited calendar dates reflecting the game's theme of mortality and making the most out of life while it lasts). It commits the cardinal sin of being a sequel that does nothing to build upon its predecessor or follow up on what it established, and seems determined to actively undo everything Persona 3 had achieved, from its more standard dating sim experience to its warm and chipper atmosphere.
Mechanically it's... it's fine, I guess. It's a generic JRPG. Some dislike the RNG dungeons, I personally really like them. Fusing and creating Personae is really satisfying and addicting as it always is. It gets piss-easy towards the end especially if you've built your characters properly, but I really like the "bonus dungeon" added in Golden for the reason that it so heavily restricts your characters and forces you to think outside whatever strategy you've been using to sweep the last three or four dungeons. The combo attacks/bonus actions from dormant party members are cute.
In spite of the time I've just spent ripping Persona 4 a new one I don't entirely loathe it it. I kind of love it for what it is, and that's a horrifically fucked up and flawed game that happens to have a few really good things going for it. As a whole I think the social links are the best in the stories as individual stories (the Dojimas stand out in particular, and Marie has the honor of being my favorite social link in the series). When it's not being oppressively backwards-assed, the atmosphere is really unique and captures the uneasy nothingness of growing up in a small town really well. The music and washed-out aesthetic of the game engine really drives home the unique atmosphere, which is simultaneously a little stilted and eerie while also feeling warm and inviting. I do feel a weird sense of connection to the Investigation Team despite the fact that I never once thought they were friends and spend much of their time together riffing on one another and treating each other like shit. Some moments in the story, as poorly structured as it is, really do hit home and manage to evoke a strong emotional reaction out of me (though they're usually undone literally the next second so the bliss is brief at best). The main antagonist of the game is my favorite in the series; for the scant moments and single in-game day that they directly appear they manage to exhibit a large amount of nuance and complexity that I feel Persona antagonists generally have a hard time capturing.
I don't fucking know, man. This game fucking sucks but I also don't feel like it'd be correct to call it a bad game.
Just read the manga. The writing in that one is way different and doesn't have almost any of the issues with the I've mentioned in this review, with every character and topic being handled with much more nuance than Atlus was evidently capable of putting forth back in 2008, and I find Souji Seta to be a much more palatable and interesting character than the game's blank slate or Yu Narukami, the cardinal douchebag portrayal seen in the spinoffs and anime.
God. I hate Persona 4. I also think about it quite often. 2.5 stars - exactly half on the scale, because it's every bit as aggressively terrible as it is uniquely and bizarrely excellent.
tl;dr eeeeuuuugghhhghhhhgghghghghhgghgfhfghfdgsdhfgfdg
3 Comments
This is literally the best review of the game on the entire site. Thank you.
1/10 OR DIE
ThriceUponATime
2 years ago