The second Baten Kaitos game and a prequel story to the original game. This one was never released in Europe the first time round so the HD remaster on Switch was my first time playing it and the version that forms the basis of this review.

Baten Kaitos Origins takes the foundations laid by the original game and instead of building upon them, decides to simplify things a bit to make for a smoother experience. The battle system is where this can be seen at its most prominent. Like the original game, this game uses a card based battle system where you have a deck of cards and your hand determines what actions you can do during your turn. In Origins things have been simplified to make for a smoother experience. Here we have just one deck of a maximum of 60 cards that all party members pull from. You can build multiple decks and switch them in and out for whatever you feel you need at the time. The cards themselves have also been simplified with each card having a number ranging from 0-6. 0 cards now provide your defence options rather than it being a separate turn, or can provide elemental effects to attacks and stuff like that. The defence cards provide damage reduction for a set amount of attacks and all 0 cards can be used at the start of a turn to kick off a combo. Cards numbered 1-3 are standard attacks while 4-6 require the level meter to be filled to the right level to use and that bar is filled from doing combos.
Combos are built from using the cards in numerical order. You can start with whatever number you like but you can only combo into a card with a higher numerical value than the one you used. The ideal scenario is having a hand that lets you go from 0-6 but it's difficult when each character has their own 0 cards and specials 4-6 cards. Each card you use draws a new one from the deck and you only get a second or so to carry on your combo before your turn ends so you're frantically scanning your hand and planning your attacks before you run out of time.
As you progress through the game you'll end up with a maximum deck of 60 cards, 7 cards in a hand, and the ability to discard more and more cards during a turn. At first I was kinda disappointed with the new battle system as I felt like it removed a lot of the depth of the original system but once I got a hang of it and learned how to do relay combos where characters can continue a previous combo and is doable for all 3 party members, as well as taking advantage of Milly's unique +1 and +2 cards to build even longer combos, I came to appreciate the much faster paced battles and loved seeing how crazy a combo I could build up in a single turn.

Other simplifications this game does is cut your playable cast in half to just 3 characters: Sagi, Guillo, and Milly. Honestly, this was kinda disappointing after having a great time with the cast in Baten Kaitos 1 and felt like an overcorrection when the battle system changes already solved the biggest issue with having so many characters in 1 by cutting out the deck management for each character.
Sagi is an alright character, a very standard Japanese RPG protagonist and unfortunately didn't do much for me.
Guillo is this cool machina who has no filter on what they say and often clashes with Milly who is our feisty kick ass girl of the group. I enjoyed Milly and Guillo a lot but the group didn't do a whole lot for me and honestly felt a little flat and lacking.

Which brings us onto the story for Origins itself. A prequel story set around 20 years before the events of BK1, Sagi ends up being tasked with stopping the Empire machinanising the other continents as well as stopping them collecting the remnants of Malparcio, the evil god they were reviving in the first game. The bulk of the first half of the game is visiting each continent, trying to stop the Empire and falling, and getting a flashback after a remnant of Malparcio is defeated. The flashbacks take Sagi and co back to 1000 years ago and detail the events that lead into the War of the Gods we heard so much about in BK1. The past sections had the more interesting story for me as it was cool learning more about such a huge event spoken about in the first game, the main story felt a little flat, repetitive and uninteresting outside of seeing some cameos from characters in the original game. The fact you gain your whole party very early in the game means that repeating the same core story beats 4 times in a row starts to fall flat very quickly. There's some cool plot twists after that section and I like how the Spiriters are utilised in this game but then so much of the back half of the game feels like optional content that shouldn't be optional. Freeing each continent from machination and wrapping up the War of the Gods scenario (which needs to be done to fight the true final boss) are unvoiced and optional with no real build up to them and it kinda sucks because the pacing and urgency of those situations just falls completely off a cliff when they should've been some of the more epic portions of the game.

And ultimately that's the biggest flaw of Baten Kaitos Origins - it takes the original game and fails to truly build on its foundations, instead spinning its wheels in place and doesn't really go anywhere exciting. What we end up with is a solid enough game that is consistently fine but struggles to hit the highs that the first game did.

I went into this game expecting the worst, late release, no one talks about it, I was burnt out just having finished the other Kaitos game, this game wasn't cheap used and it left me with a horrible first impression.

So I'm extremely glad that I eventually came back to it and gave it a chance, I went from not thinking anything of it to it being possible, or very close to being what I consider to be the best RPG game that generation, and I truly mean that.
Every single problem I had with the first game was improved in this Prequel game.

This is an RPG where you use a deck of cards as attacks in battle, it's explained in the story and is part of the lore of these games, it sounds boring and un-fun to use cards but in practice it's more of a nice theming story element than a game mechanic.

This game looks incredible, if you've played other
Tri-ace/Monolith games you will know what to expect, it has the same kind of level of detail and art you might see in Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, ect
Except both Baten Kaitos games have a sky/nature themed art style, it's really impressive and highly detailed, most backgrounds are animated, and are often layered creating a real sense of depth, considering the game takes place on floating continents this is very important. I often would just stop and leave the game running while appreciating the art and music.

Everything about the game starts slow, and this is my only complaint and it's a big one, the story is a "slow burn" and the first town you start in is actually a maze-dungeon that is dreadful to navigate, it took me 4 hours to get to the "good part" It's honestly horrible and probably a large reason why fans of the first game typically regard this as a bad sequel after playing a few hours and never coming back.

If you start this game or have dropped it early on I encourage you to give it another chance, I insist it gets MUCH better.

Battles are actually fun, the first game was more about planning and setting up your card deck before battle, that is still an aspect in this game but it has been simplified a bit in favor of chain attacks and fast battles where you have to make quick decisions.

Most people who complain about it being simple I believe have not played up to where mechanics are added that add a great amount of depth to the battles.

This game if you give it the time becomes extremely satisfying, at one point I was pulling off 15-card chains with my party uncovering the secret attack combinations that result in powerful and fun to watch super moves, I was beating super bosses on the first turn, there's no way I can describe how it feels to bide turns waiting for the perfect lineup of cards and unleash a super long chain attack that carries over between all three party members, I can't say enough good things about the battle mechanics, they eliminated all the turns where you get stuck with non attack items and have to waste all of your turns.

The story in this game... It starts slow as well, you slowly uncover a mystery, learn about the characters, the game explores some themes I don't typically see in this genre and there's some very well done plot twists that I wont spoil.

Most RPG plots and twists fall really flat for me, so it says a lot that I was engaged with it the entire way through, the backstories, lore, ect are super interesting and well expanded upon, the story isn't typical I somehow grew to appreciate the characters, it's weird to say this is a game that caused me to Feel things, like actually got a response out of me at several points, I'm cynical and have played a decent number of RPG and story games so that's an achievement, a bit at the very end hit Very hard unexpectedly, it was truly moving and made the final fight unforgettable much like Xenoblade did if you have played that. I would give the story and writing a perfect rating.

The writing is mostly entertaining, the main cast often has a lot to say about everything (no silent protagonist here) and they often bicker and go back and forth in ways that come off genuine, this is helped a lot by the voice acting which isn't perfect but far above average for the time and a massive improvement over the below amateur quality in Eternal Wings (the first game).

This game is 70 hours long I assumed the quote boasting this on the back of the box was exaggerating but no, it really took that long, the good news is mandatory backtracking and fetch quests are kept to a minimum and the game doesn't have many archaic illogical moments to get you stuck or waste your time, the game has a good momentum introducing new towns and dungeons as you go, and this time there's some good side content if you're up for it too, you're typical RPG coliseum is one of them and it included several extra hours of gameplay.

And as if I haven't already explained so much I like about this game the music is incredible, almost too good for words, the composer somehow came back from Eternal Wings' already amazing ost and did it better, comparing both Origins has a lot more variety in music genres, tempo, and atmosphere, some themes manage to be very emotional, the rock themes are well appreciated and create high energy, best of all the main battle theme never gets old, it's extremely good. Whether it be instrument choice, depth, track length, originality, most racks are near unmatched, I think this is the composers best work to this day, Le Ali del Principio is incredible shockingly good, every track fits the scenes they are used in perfectly, this is a legendary soundtrack.

If you take anything from this review, if you bothered to read any of this, find a way to listen to this soundtrack I think you will not regret it. Personally, as a game soundtrack CD collector this was a must-have and one that I treasure owning, the soundtrack stands on it's own as a great experience even outside the context of the game.

The game comes on 2 discs, you cant save when starting 2 and you start on a hard boss, this in one of the most frequent complaints I've seen about this game and it is very true, I was fortunate that I took my time exploring so I had the best equipment and was leveled enough, but you can permanently softlock after about 30 hours so it is important to be aware of this.

So yeah I think I've gone on long enough, TLDR this a fantastic Gamecube exclusive RPG worth it for the physical copy if you want to play that way, and worth the time investment, just don't let the prologue ruin it for you.

Just as good as the first one. The gameplay was modified in a way that I could be seen as better or worse based on your preference but personally I like it more. The party is smaller but each one has focus and feels important. The story feels is as excellent as a prequel to Eternal Wings could be.

Definitely check this out if you're looking for a older obscure RPG with unique gameplay although I would recommend Eternal Wings first. I'd also recommend this series to Xeno fans looking for more Monolithsoft goodness.

Un chasco viniendo del primer 'Baten Kaitos', y es una lástima que el resultado final haya salido así porque se aprecia el intento de Monolith Soft por escuchar las quejas sobre el primer juego y pulir sus espinas.

Lo primero que sorprende de 'Baten Kaitos Origins' es su nuevo sistema de combate, mucho más ágil y concebido para combinar ataques entre los miembros del grupo. Sin embargo, para que funcione en teoría, el componente de deck-building ha sido simplificado dramáticamente y sustituido la plétora de armas/equipación por ataques genéricos, fácilmente enlazables entre ellos. Esto consigue que los combates sean más dinámicos pero mucho más repetitivos si cabe (sobretodo en los primeros compases de la aventura), con escasa variedad de movimientos y técnicas que añadan complejidad sobre la marcha. Para más inri, los tres protagonistas comparten un mismo mazo de combate, en vez de tenerlos separados como en el primer juego (algo que podía ser engorroso en primera instancia, pero ayudaba a personalizar su estrategia de combate). Y por si fuera poco, llenar el mazo con nuevas cartas suele ser contraproducente si sigues las indicaciones que marca el juego, porque te obligará a descartarlas si no las necesitas en combate y perder turnos adicionales que el enemigo bien sabrá aprovechar.

De hecho, el mazo más óptimo es aquel que amplíes lo mínimo posible: pequeñito, entorno a 30 cartas, la gran mayoría siendo ataques básicos, y luego algún Magnus adicional para recuperar vida y para equipar armas (sólo una al mismo tiempo). Lo puedes exprimir de la manera que quieras, pero los fundamentos son esos y saltárselos se paga caro. En consecuencia, la progresión del juego se sabe extremadamente tediosa (sobre todo en los primeros compases de la aventura). Rara vez encuentras tesoros que supongan una mejora a lo que ya tienes, los stats sólo aumentan al subir nivel (muy poco), e incluso las tiendas están plagadas de Magnus inútiles que banalizan cualquier uso que puede hacerse del dinero... personalmente, no recuerdo haber gastado prácticamente nada de lo obtenido. Por supuesto y como mandan los cánones, Monolith Soft hace un trabajo horrible para explicar cómo funcionan sus sistemas RPG y los tutoriales brillan por su ausencia cuando más se necesitan. Marca de la casa.

La monotonía es un valor del cual el RPG moderno trata de rehuir a toda costa, pero en 'Baten Kaitos Origins' forma parte de su identidad como precuela. La fascinación al visitar una nueva isla flotante ha desaparecido, y en su lugar encontramos los mismos escenarios que conocíamos del original, con muy pocos cambios por el camino pero con personajes 20 años más jóvenes, infantilizados en su manera de ser y colocados como reclamo para enlazar ambas narrativas. 'Origins' posee un arranque todavía más lento que en el primer juego, recorriendo el mundo en pos de detener la industrialización de los continentes sin que tengas la sensación de que tus acciones importen, o que la amenaza opresora sea tan palpable en el ambiente. El pacing se resiente también porque en multitud de ocasiones, la narrativa traslada a los personajes 1000 años atrás en el tiempo para contar la Guerra de los Dioses y los orígenes de Malpercio, lo cual está francamente bien, pero se preocupa tanto de construir el contexto necesario para su "gran revelación" (no tan efectiva como en el primer 'Baten Kaitos') que parece desconectado del resto del juego. Desgraciadamente, 'Origins' insiste también en un diseño de mazmorras bastante mediocre y con una mayor dependencia a guardar/utilizar Magnus de campo para generar puzles, haciendo la navegación mucho más engorrosa e incluso a veces diseñada a mala fe. No han sido pocas las ganas que tuve de aparcar el juego. Pero dentro de lo malo, cuando el sistema de combate luce en su máximo esplendor, el último tercio de la aventura es mucho más consistente y agradable de jugar.

Aún así, es extraña la función que cumple 'Origins' como punto de enlace con el primer 'Baten Kaitos'. Insistiendo en los conceptos menos interesantes que propuso este (el imperio de Alfard, los antagonistas menores que eran Geldoblame y Giacomo), sin que el vínculo resulte muy convincente al final de la partida, incluso sin explicar cómo ninguno de los hechos de 'Origins' terminan manifestándose en el primer juego (lo hizo un mago). Tampoco se entiende la reducción del casting a 3 personajes siendo este uno de los fuertes de 'Baten Kaitos'. Vale, Guillo se hace de querer y es una representación no binaria muy simpática para el año que salió este juego, Milliarde es bastante maja también, pero Sagi como protagonista es un downgrade enorme viniendo de Kalas y su actuación a dos bandas que le hacía tan poco convencional dentro del género. Kalas era chulo y prepotente, pero también metódico y capaz de deducir el camino a seguir por su propia cuenta; en cambio Sagi no dista mucho del buen samaritano, tradicional del JRPG, que se entera muy poco de lo que sucede pese estar íntimamente relacionado al giro argumental más importante del juego. Pese a ello, los tres en su conjunto generan una buena dinámica entre sus pullitas y comentarios ocasionales, y el coqueteo entre Sagi-Milliarde parece bastante dulce y genuino a fin de cuentas.

Tras casi 50h de partida, no sé si ha merecido tanto la pena. Cierto en sí, es un milagro que esta secuela exista dado el nulo presupuesto que puso Namco sobre la mesa y que Nintendo interviniera contra pronóstico para publicar el juego en GameCube (extraño propietario de este título cuando no posee la IP, un caso similar a 'Bayonetta 2-3-Origins'). El apartado artístico y los escenarios pre-renderizados siguen luciendo muy bien (auqnue las caras, Juan, las caras), la música de Motoi Sakuraba sigue dando mucha caña, ocasionalmente hay algún momento de genialidad que sólo Monolith Soft (y tri-Crescendo, no olvidarse de ellos) podría conseguir. Pero sabe a poco. La cantidad de elementos reciclados es desorbitada, incluyendo una enorme variedad de enemigos y localizaciones, pero eso no sería un problema si los fundamentos detrás de 'Origins' fuesen más sólidos. Al final, no sé si hubiese preferido haber tocado únicamente al primer juego y desentenderme de todo lo que sucediese alrededor. Pero oye, ni tan mal.

After finishing this game, I have to say that I really loved it. I probably liked it as much as Baten Kaitos I, and I may even prefer it a little bit over the first game.
Firstly, it improves in some aspects from the original, as an example, the battle system is faster than in the first game, and the wings are now also integrated into the gameplay, which I really liked. But it not only improves in some aspects, I think it's also a bit worse in some areas. The battle system is simpler and more straight-forward than in the first game, and while it makes it faster, you do not have as many options as in the first game. So I don't think it's an overall improvement, but the advantages of it also don't make it worse. Always organizing your deck in Baten Kaitos I was a bit annoying to me, and only having to manage one for the whole party in Baten Kaitos Origins was more convenient to me. So I can see how someone can prefer the battle system from Baten Kaitos Origins over the one from the first game, and inversely, how someone can prefer the one from Baten Kaitos I over the battle system from Origins.
Next, the characters were great. I really liked Sagi, Milly and Guillo. The dynamic between these characters is fantastic, and the smaller cast size compared to the first game was, in my opinion, a good decision for this game. Though I really liked Kalas and Xelha in Baten Kaitos I, I don't think the other characters were that memorable, not bad, but also not outstanding either.
Regarding the story, I think it was really gripping and good, and so overall, it was a bit better than the one from the first game.
Lastly, not to forget, the soundtrack is absolutely fantastic, just like the first Baten Kaitos game. I especially love the battle theme, it's great.
So after all, I can totally recommend this game, especially if you played and liked the first Baten Kaitos game. It's a wonderful prequel and definitely deserves to be talked about more.

I ranted and raved about the original, and this one is almost as good.

I was skeptical at first since I hadn't even heard of this game until years later when looking for the wiki article to the first game. I assumed it must have been a dud to fall that far under the radar, but I was wrong.

This game is a bit of give and take compared to the first one. What I mean is that the great card based combo system and gameplay of the first one is more fleshed out and feels incredible in this one. It feels like they figured out exactly how to improve their system without changing anything that worked. Over the long time this game took, I still stayed awed at how much fun combat was the whole way, something that never happens to me over the course of long RPGs.

That said, the story is overall a bit weaker. It's not bad by any means, but the original had one of the better video game stories I've seen, constantly subverting my expectations in well written and executed ways.
This game's story is just a decent RPG story. It's not bad by any means, but it was a bit predictable and overall not on the same level as that of the first Baten Kaitos.

All in all, this is an excellent game, but I do admit the first one had a stronger impact on me.

Eternal Wings' follow-up - Baten Kaitos Origins, is a much more accomplished version of the same idea. This prequel retained little of the debut's lethargy, with welcome adjustments to movement (by introducing a sprint button), menus (by condensing and speeding up deckbuilding) and - last but not least, to its battle system. More fluid but also more linear, the main strength of this revamped combat lies in the constant decision-making involved, requiring frequent, nimble hand management via discarding, playing or chaining cards according to one's rapidly evolving strategy. Although much less 'RPG' than before, and certainly less dependent on elements, it evokes the streamlined pace (if not the speed) of 90s ATB systems. Regular battles are intense and demanding, with precious little room to breathe, but its relentless nature is best epitomized by their hectic and challenging - if occasionally painful boss fights. At the same time, a turn-order bar (replacing the party-to-party phases of old) and new mechanics such as MP bursts and relay attacks further broaden their hasty-yet-brainy gameplay. After beginning as a more or less randomly arranged battle menu, Baten Kaitos' combat radically transformed into one of the most electrifying in JRPG history.

Monolith Soft's passion for indulgent, drawn-out cutscenes and gimmicky dungeons - however, is no less annoying here. Despite this, their story succeeds in mixing the political intrigue of the first with themes of industrialization and a dual-narrative, that alternates between two different stories and eras. In both cases, its finer moments highlight their skills at sculpting compelling scenarios, memorable quips, funny side quests, and above all a great playable cast, whose personalities (from clownish to snarky) and chemistry dominate the show from start to finish.

The leap in quality is impressive enough, but Origins is more than a simple refinement: It's a formidable, hilarious and exciting mid-00s milestone that recast their turn-based, TCG/RPG crossbreed as a puzzle-action game in disguise.

Baten Kaitos Origins is a weird game for me. Because as far as the game side of it goes, it didn't really work for me. And yet, i finished the game. Not in a "i've come this far, might as well" way but i finished it because i wanted to. I think Baten Kaitos Origins is a perfect example of why characters are so important.

But let's start at the beginning with the gameplay. It's not actually bad. It makes sense mechanically and there are even bursts of adrenaline rush when you manage to pull off a big combo. My problem with the combat is that it's just.......not what i wanted. Eternal Wings' combat was pretty good, if flawed, and i wanted to see a refinement of that. Origins' combat is technically fine but the stuff i liked about the combat in the previous game is gone. In particular, i missed the freedom i had in Eternal Wings. Origins making the decision to have everyone share the same deck did not mesh well with me and as a result, i ended up finding it more restrictive. By the time i reached Disc 2, i had pretty much accepted that the combat system was not one i was ever gonna get used to.

And yet, i kept playing. I kept playing because this game has one of my new favorite casts in gaming. Baten Kaitos Origins does something bold with it's cast: there are only three. That's right, there are only three playable characters in the entire game. If you're someone who likes switching up parties, sorry, but trust me when i say that just having three characters works so much to this game's benefit. Sagi, Guillo, and Milly all have great character moments and interactions because the writing could focus on them. I'm not saying bigger casts can't work, but one of the main problems of JRPGs is what i like to call character irrelevancy syndrome, where some characters just feel less relevant than others. By just having three characters in the party, Baten Kaitos Origins is able to avoid this completely. The amount of JRPGs that make it's entire party feel relevant is honestly pretty small. Xenoblade 2 is like the only other example that avoids character irrelevancy syndrome and that game's main cast is much bigger. And as side note, both Xenoblade 2 and Baten Kaitos Origins' cast are on the same level for me.

The best character is Guillo easily. Guillo is not only the best character in the Baten Kaitos duology but one of Monolith Soft's best characters. Free S-tier placement. The thing about Guillo is that despite not being comic relief, Guillo is just naturally funny. A lot of their lines are very based and their interactions with the other two members of the duo, especially Milly, can be hilarious. It's honestly amazing how this puppet was written with so much personality and so many great lines.

Sagi himself gives off a basic first impression but he's pretty likable. If i were to compare him to another Monolith Soft protagonist, the easiest comparison would be to Rex. I think Rex is better but they're like the same kind of character when you think about it. And by the end of the game, i think i liked Sagi more than Kalas from the previous game. Kalas is funny and an asshole and had a very interesting moment but i felt like Sagi just had more characterization overall and his interactions with Guillo and Milly were great all around. My only nitpick with him is that his voice actor, while not doing a bad job, just feels like he's just here for the paycheck.

Milly shows once again that Monolith Soft is very much capable of writing female leads. Very likable with a lot of personality and i was invested to see how she'd resolve her personal struggles. I was surprised to see she uses maces in combat, since i figured she'd just be a mage but i guess that's Guillo's job. And man, oh man, i know i already said this in another way, but Milly interactions with Guillo are some of the best. Never a dull moment between these two.

The main cast is the reason why this game ended up being so enjoyable. If the main cast failed, i actually would've just dropped the game. Thankfully, that didn't happen.

The story itself has seen improvement from Eternal Wings. Gone is the McGuffin fetch quest from the first game, now we have an actually well-written prequel. This game essentially has two plots: the main plot in the present and then the other main plot that happens in the distance past. Having a prequel that has a prequel in it is really weird but it works, trust me. The villains have seen some improvement as well. The Machnia Vanguard and the younger Giacomo serve as serviceable minor villains and the main villain of the distant past plotline....isn't explained at all but he has rule of cool going for him. Unfortunately, the main villain of the present plotline doesn't have a lot going for him.

One particular aspect of the story i'm not too sure on is that the trio of heroes loses a lot. And that can be very frustrating, to the point where even Sagi is like "this sucks so bad". I like that losing in the story isn't handled as a "oh whoops, i had to get bailed out" but it happens a bit too much where i can understandably see people being upset by it. Thankfully, you get to rematch those losses and come out on top.

The music is good as before. Battle themes are bangers, area themes are actually pretty good this time and the final boss theme is very special. The true final battle is probably the most atmospheric fight Monolith Soft as far as the scenario goes (Tri-Cres handled the actual battles) and this is held up by the choice of final boss theme. If you listen to the song on it's own, it does not sound like a final boss theme at all but it works really well with this given context and i love it and i think Motoi Sakuraba needs to stop composing for Tales because i get the feeling that Tales just holds him back.

One of the biggest improvements though is the English voice acting. It's actually good. Guillo's voices are amazing and yes, i said voices. They did this thing where they gave Guillo a male voice and a female voice and had them play at the same time.

As i said when i started writing this review, Baten Kaitos Origins is a weird game. Because despite never clicking with the gameplay, the game still ended up being very enjoyable for me. Under normal circumstances, i might've just given up, even if i was liking the story and characters. That's what happened to me with Final Fantasy 7. And yet, i kept playing because i was so invested in the characters that i wanted to see their journey from start to finish.

Is the 8/10 score a bit to high for what i just said? Maybe. But the main trio is what ended up making the game so enjoyable for me and it's so rare for me to keep playing a game despite just not clicking with the gameplay and you know what, that deserves points.