I will keep at it one day for sure. I prefer the PS1 over the PSP remake for the aesthetics and how fast the menus are there instead. The cast is already much better than basically any other Persona game (maybe debatably with P3, but that one has Yukari that I despise with my whole heart, so idk).
Anyways Eikichi is fun and I love him and no one should dare to bully him.
Anyways Eikichi is fun and I love him and no one should dare to bully him.
Where as Persona 1’s gameplay is torture labyrinth, this games gameplay is a snooze fest. It’s basically what every rpg hater thinks rpg gameplay is like. One of the better Megaten stories out there but unfortunately the poor gameplay system it’s surrounded by muddles the experience.
Easy boring gameplay fantastic story and characters.
GAY
URGENT: For the love of god, play the PS1 original, not the PSP version. I have deleted the log that I originally posted here and am re-posting this now in hopes of getting eyes on this and counterbalancing any misunderstanding that it may have propagated. As it turns out, the entire crux of my disappointment with Innocent Sin is the PSP version's doing.
On PSP, REGARDLESS of difficulty selection, Innocent Sin's gameplay is a desert one must cross to reach the oases of its wonderful story. On PS1, Innocent Sin's battles are NOT exclusively a waste of your time! It's NOT a small difference! It turns out that the auto-battle system used to NOT SUCK, and there used to be some modicum of ACTUAL TENSION in some of the fights!!! I honestly feel cheated by having the PSP version taint my first experience! The PS1 version is as good as the PSP version of Eternal Punishment, maybe even better!
It's not a simple matter of being "too easy." The PSP version of Innocent Sin traps you in a position where the encounter rate is disruptively high and then presents you with two options for achieving the forgone conclusion of your victory in any of these encounters:
Option 1: Navigate the menus for each character every turn and tell them each to do the obviously optimal thing every turn with no interesting variations because the only thing enemies can do in their own defense is annoy you but they have too much health to courteously die in a timely fashion,
or Option 2: Press Triangle and sit patiently while the game resolves the encounter on its own in the slowest, most painful way possible, including all of the bosses, with pretty much complete, unquestionable safety.
On the PS1, the game is DESIGNED around a WAY better auto-battle system, and things can actually hurt you, so you have to pay attention! Even if the fights aren't much more interesting on PS1, they fly by so much faster that it's hard to complain about them. It's still by no means difficult, but it at least provides Final Fantasy levels of combat engagement now! In fact, the game clicks into place in almost the exact same ways that a PS1 Final Fantasy game does, as a breezy trip through a meticulously told and thematically resonant story, with gameplay that doesn't turn any heads, but doesn't get in the way of a good time either.
It feels at least slightly insane to bump Innocent Sin from the lowly score it had all the way up to this, but everything wrong with it is in its gameplay mechanics, and on PS1 almost everything I held against the PSP version is a non-issue. It still doesn't sit right with me that the easiest path through the game means never even setting foot in the Velvet Room, and having to grind out demon negotiations if you choose to use it sucks, but compared to my previous problems of constant, meaningless, tedious encounters, that's practically nothing.
Am I willing to give it the full-on five star treatment? Not quite. The design is still too shaky for that. Aside from the Velvet Room thing, money and SP still grow on trees in a way that makes dungeoneering and shopping even less interesting than it is in, say, Final Fantasy VII, and something like materia is enough to blow this implementation of the Velvet Room out of the water.
The question is, will Eternal Punishment bring enough tension back into the battles to overpower those other flaws and win my full marks?
EDIT... again:
The balance is fine. I'm nearing the end of my replay on PS1 now, and I've totally come around on the battle system and its balance. The gap between PS1 Innocent Sin and PSP Eternal Punishment is small, and there's no need for Eternal Punishment to "fix" it. I have however decided that yeah, I do have to dock a bit for pacing reasons. The beginning of the game absolutely knocks it out of the park, but the middle drags. It really does start wearing you down when Lisa's spotlight arc plays out across three of the blander dungeons with only brief glimpses of story in between them. The mundane setting plays a hand in this, because while it may be interesting to see a game turn an exercise gym into a dungeon, it ends up being the fifth or sixth "normal building" dungeon the player has navigated in a row. On top of this... like, the air raid shelter just sorta sucks, dude. Not letting you save before you fight King Leo after you just did a whole dungeon and a bunch of cutscenes? Also sucks. I think there are enough low points here to hold this back from really trading blows with something like Final Fantasy VII or even IX. I guess this really IS an alternate universe Final Fantasy VIII...
Edit AGAIN:
So at the end of this journey, of my many initial criticisms, the following still stand:
-The third or so of the game after the first two hours drags.
-Minor setpiece groaning about King Leo and Air Raid shelter.
-Negotiation sucks and isn't fun to grind so Velvet Room rots.
-For MOST of the game SP is a non-factor (not endgame).
That's... not a long list, and the impact of everything on it isn't really much bigger than say, the overbloated animations and trance system failures of FFIX, another game that I've recently decided I can't deny a spot in the five-star club. The honest truth is that Innocent Sin is so cosmically far ahead of its time in terms of writing that it should take a lot more than that petty list of grievances to lower its standing.
On PSP, REGARDLESS of difficulty selection, Innocent Sin's gameplay is a desert one must cross to reach the oases of its wonderful story. On PS1, Innocent Sin's battles are NOT exclusively a waste of your time! It's NOT a small difference! It turns out that the auto-battle system used to NOT SUCK, and there used to be some modicum of ACTUAL TENSION in some of the fights!!! I honestly feel cheated by having the PSP version taint my first experience! The PS1 version is as good as the PSP version of Eternal Punishment, maybe even better!
It's not a simple matter of being "too easy." The PSP version of Innocent Sin traps you in a position where the encounter rate is disruptively high and then presents you with two options for achieving the forgone conclusion of your victory in any of these encounters:
Option 1: Navigate the menus for each character every turn and tell them each to do the obviously optimal thing every turn with no interesting variations because the only thing enemies can do in their own defense is annoy you but they have too much health to courteously die in a timely fashion,
or Option 2: Press Triangle and sit patiently while the game resolves the encounter on its own in the slowest, most painful way possible, including all of the bosses, with pretty much complete, unquestionable safety.
On the PS1, the game is DESIGNED around a WAY better auto-battle system, and things can actually hurt you, so you have to pay attention! Even if the fights aren't much more interesting on PS1, they fly by so much faster that it's hard to complain about them. It's still by no means difficult, but it at least provides Final Fantasy levels of combat engagement now! In fact, the game clicks into place in almost the exact same ways that a PS1 Final Fantasy game does, as a breezy trip through a meticulously told and thematically resonant story, with gameplay that doesn't turn any heads, but doesn't get in the way of a good time either.
It feels at least slightly insane to bump Innocent Sin from the lowly score it had all the way up to this, but everything wrong with it is in its gameplay mechanics, and on PS1 almost everything I held against the PSP version is a non-issue. It still doesn't sit right with me that the easiest path through the game means never even setting foot in the Velvet Room, and having to grind out demon negotiations if you choose to use it sucks, but compared to my previous problems of constant, meaningless, tedious encounters, that's practically nothing.
Am I willing to give it the full-on five star treatment? Not quite. The design is still too shaky for that. Aside from the Velvet Room thing, money and SP still grow on trees in a way that makes dungeoneering and shopping even less interesting than it is in, say, Final Fantasy VII, and something like materia is enough to blow this implementation of the Velvet Room out of the water.
The question is, will Eternal Punishment bring enough tension back into the battles to overpower those other flaws and win my full marks?
EDIT... again:
The balance is fine. I'm nearing the end of my replay on PS1 now, and I've totally come around on the battle system and its balance. The gap between PS1 Innocent Sin and PSP Eternal Punishment is small, and there's no need for Eternal Punishment to "fix" it. I have however decided that yeah, I do have to dock a bit for pacing reasons. The beginning of the game absolutely knocks it out of the park, but the middle drags. It really does start wearing you down when Lisa's spotlight arc plays out across three of the blander dungeons with only brief glimpses of story in between them. The mundane setting plays a hand in this, because while it may be interesting to see a game turn an exercise gym into a dungeon, it ends up being the fifth or sixth "normal building" dungeon the player has navigated in a row. On top of this... like, the air raid shelter just sorta sucks, dude. Not letting you save before you fight King Leo after you just did a whole dungeon and a bunch of cutscenes? Also sucks. I think there are enough low points here to hold this back from really trading blows with something like Final Fantasy VII or even IX. I guess this really IS an alternate universe Final Fantasy VIII...
Edit AGAIN:
So at the end of this journey, of my many initial criticisms, the following still stand:
-The third or so of the game after the first two hours drags.
-Minor setpiece groaning about King Leo and Air Raid shelter.
-Negotiation sucks and isn't fun to grind so Velvet Room rots.
-For MOST of the game SP is a non-factor (not endgame).
That's... not a long list, and the impact of everything on it isn't really much bigger than say, the overbloated animations and trance system failures of FFIX, another game that I've recently decided I can't deny a spot in the five-star club. The honest truth is that Innocent Sin is so cosmically far ahead of its time in terms of writing that it should take a lot more than that petty list of grievances to lower its standing.
Thank god this was my introduction to the persona series, story and music are just superb, Loved the characters and their interactions and overall a really intense game that prepares you for what's next.
The story is really good and interesting but the combat becomes a bit of a pain because of the constant frame drops.
The second half of the game is also incredibly annoying due to awful bosses and dungeons.
The second half of the game is also incredibly annoying due to awful bosses and dungeons.
O estilo de arte do jogo é sem dúvidas um dos mais bonitos de tudo que eu já joguei.
A plot é criativa e muito interessante. Mas a gameplay é a coisa mais lenta, desgastante e longa q eu já vi na vida.
Esse jogo é uma sessão de bdsm eterna vsf
A plot é criativa e muito interessante. Mas a gameplay é a coisa mais lenta, desgastante e longa q eu já vi na vida.
Esse jogo é uma sessão de bdsm eterna vsf
tatsujun canon :p
El peor gameplay que he sufrido en un jrpg. No merece la pena sufrirlo por una historia que tampoco me parece nada del otro mundo. Está bien, pero joder
So this is not very good as a game. it's not very fun. but here's the thing: it means a lot to me, and i really like old and dated games. morrowind is the best elder scrolls and all that. I wish our beautiful team could be together more, but their dynamic did a lot for me. they feel real to me. easily the best persona team, junhead for life, atlus should've remastered this one instead of 3 not that i necessarily trust them with gay people or really anything at all. also, the plot did a lot for me-- the scenes in the mountain were beautiful, and then all of the wild conspiracy shit was fun. Halfway through the game i was like "i dont think it'll get better from here, it was so good..." and it did! what a beautiful game. er, narrative.
Es de mi gusto decir que termine Persona 2 Innocent Sin
Ame este juego, la historia aunque no soy alguien que lo toma prioritario es muy linda, tarda en iniciar un poco pero es cosa de que aparece King Leo y se prende esta madre. Amo sus personajes todos muy carismáticos con arcos muy bonitos, y su mensaje es algo que... Me llegó a lo personal.
Ahora del gameplay el desplazamiento me gusta aunque la cámara si está algo cerca lo que es molesto, los dungeon no están mal, aunque por ejemplo Mt Iwato es infumable, y algunos son algo aburridos, el combate me gusta la mecánica de Fusion Spells es buenísima, el modo de combate me gusta, los contactos me fascinan lo sentí muy superior al 1, con mucha personalidad e interacciones grandiosas, también a mencionar la obtención de las armas definitivas y el sistema de rumores que es muy bueno y una dificultad, que está bien.
Bien, de lo que no me gustó fue, el método de fusion, muy downgrade al 1 aunque no me molesta mucho grindear cartas, el diseño de dungeons, algunos no me gustan nada y las misiones secundarias que a excepción de la del Kasuyagama y armas definitivas, son bastante malas y no dan mucho que valga la pena.
Ame este juego, la historia aunque no soy alguien que lo toma prioritario es muy linda, tarda en iniciar un poco pero es cosa de que aparece King Leo y se prende esta madre. Amo sus personajes todos muy carismáticos con arcos muy bonitos, y su mensaje es algo que... Me llegó a lo personal.
Ahora del gameplay el desplazamiento me gusta aunque la cámara si está algo cerca lo que es molesto, los dungeon no están mal, aunque por ejemplo Mt Iwato es infumable, y algunos son algo aburridos, el combate me gusta la mecánica de Fusion Spells es buenísima, el modo de combate me gusta, los contactos me fascinan lo sentí muy superior al 1, con mucha personalidad e interacciones grandiosas, también a mencionar la obtención de las armas definitivas y el sistema de rumores que es muy bueno y una dificultad, que está bien.
Bien, de lo que no me gustó fue, el método de fusion, muy downgrade al 1 aunque no me molesta mucho grindear cartas, el diseño de dungeons, algunos no me gustan nada y las misiones secundarias que a excepción de la del Kasuyagama y armas definitivas, son bastante malas y no dan mucho que valga la pena.
Completed the game, did not get the ultimate Persona.
A very interesting story and characters, really good soundtrack. The game's main drawback is its age and some poor realisations of game mechanics. Feels like, the encounter rate and experience gain balancing could be adjusted to not feel annoying, from which the first game suffers as well. Overall weaknessess and strengths and what Personas get which spell could be rebalanced as well. Hopefully we will get a proper remake, because the story is too good to be missed by most moderns Persona fans, who only played 3,4 and 5.
A very interesting story and characters, really good soundtrack. The game's main drawback is its age and some poor realisations of game mechanics. Feels like, the encounter rate and experience gain balancing could be adjusted to not feel annoying, from which the first game suffers as well. Overall weaknessess and strengths and what Personas get which spell could be rebalanced as well. Hopefully we will get a proper remake, because the story is too good to be missed by most moderns Persona fans, who only played 3,4 and 5.
Okay plot and meh gameplay. Visuals and music alone carry the whole game.
The first half of what is without a doubt the best story in the Persona series. Unfortunately, the gameplay was only marginally better for me than Persona 1's, and some of the OST's screeching made my ears hurt. Fortunately, both of these are improved in EP for me.
Maya and Tatsuya are both some of the best characters and protagonists in videogame history, despite both of them being silent for one of the two games.
Maya and Tatsuya are both some of the best characters and protagonists in videogame history, despite both of them being silent for one of the two games.
Persona 2 is one those works you consume and desperately want someone else to try it because you just need to talk about it, but unfortunately, you can't recommend this to everyone, the gameplay manages to be worse than P1 or even SNES era SMT, the beggining is slow, the combat is slow, the encounter rate is absurd, and to top it off, the game is unbalanced, but after some hours of eating up the shit you think the game is, you are suddenly envolved in the deepest most interesting story you've ever seen in your life, in that moment, Persona 2 brainwashes you to stop caring about the shit he's putting you through gameplay wise, you just wanna see how the story develops, what will be the next crazy shit Atlus wrote for this game, and that's when you realize that you're at the end of this borderline unplayable game, and even worse, you're fucking loving it, i feel bad for people who feel like the story, characters or atmosphere don't make up for the gameplay, because when you're vibing with the game, it's the best thing you ever played.
Fans say that the story is really good, but I dunno it didn’t really do anything for me. And the gameplay was kinda agonizing, so all the game really had to offer me was vibes, I guess.
I did like the overall aesthetic, it had some cool songs (the Kuzunoha Detective Agency theme being a prime example), the character portraits by Kazuma Kaneko are distinct and memorable, and I liked some of the cast members. I did like the themes and ideas the game employs with dreams and allat, but I don’t think it explored them too well.
I found Yuuki, Eikichi, and Jun to be kinda lame. I feel like Jun wasn’t given enough time in the party to be characterized, I found Eikichi and his mannerisms annoying, and Yuuki was boring.
The plot was really boring with the first half just going around schools, beating up a high school principal, and fighting a boring terrorist organization with the main antagonist, the Joker, being rly unthreatening with his design. And then you gotta collect crystal skulls and then kill Hitler and you get the story through flashbacks. Like the game tries to be all serious but I’m out here fighting the Joker and Hitler. I wish it had gone either further into that silliness or into seriousness.
Like none of the dungeons, except maybe the final one, were memorable. The story just has characters coming to terms with their past actions and current selves and that’s alright and all but there’s so much blegh in between that I did not find it worthwhile. Like I might have liked the game more if it were condensed into 20 or so hours, I don’t think the story is worth a 30-40 hour investment (maybe Earthbound just set my expectations too high for JRPGs).
It was pretty cool that they play Gymnopédie No. 1 in the Velvet Room after a while. Love that song. It also made me like Personas 3 and 4 less by including a gay option. Shit came out in 1999 and they let you be gay. The new personers have not got any excuse!
I did like the overall aesthetic, it had some cool songs (the Kuzunoha Detective Agency theme being a prime example), the character portraits by Kazuma Kaneko are distinct and memorable, and I liked some of the cast members. I did like the themes and ideas the game employs with dreams and allat, but I don’t think it explored them too well.
I found Yuuki, Eikichi, and Jun to be kinda lame. I feel like Jun wasn’t given enough time in the party to be characterized, I found Eikichi and his mannerisms annoying, and Yuuki was boring.
The plot was really boring with the first half just going around schools, beating up a high school principal, and fighting a boring terrorist organization with the main antagonist, the Joker, being rly unthreatening with his design. And then you gotta collect crystal skulls and then kill Hitler and you get the story through flashbacks. Like the game tries to be all serious but I’m out here fighting the Joker and Hitler. I wish it had gone either further into that silliness or into seriousness.
Like none of the dungeons, except maybe the final one, were memorable. The story just has characters coming to terms with their past actions and current selves and that’s alright and all but there’s so much blegh in between that I did not find it worthwhile. Like I might have liked the game more if it were condensed into 20 or so hours, I don’t think the story is worth a 30-40 hour investment (maybe Earthbound just set my expectations too high for JRPGs).
It was pretty cool that they play Gymnopédie No. 1 in the Velvet Room after a while. Love that song. It also made me like Personas 3 and 4 less by including a gay option. Shit came out in 1999 and they let you be gay. The new personers have not got any excuse!
The best of the Persona stories I have experienced so far. The characters are all super likable and they all have interesting developments as they go on.
The combat is not nearly bad as everyone says, which was surprising because I was expecting the game to be incredibly hard and grindy, I quite enjoy the strategy mechanic as it makes the combat encounters very quick and Persona 2 doesn't waste your time at all unlike modern RPGs.
The combat is not nearly bad as everyone says, which was surprising because I was expecting the game to be incredibly hard and grindy, I quite enjoy the strategy mechanic as it makes the combat encounters very quick and Persona 2 doesn't waste your time at all unlike modern RPGs.
dá pra ser gay.
Uma ótima primeira parte pra uma ótima duologia de três. Muito bons os personagens e a história, apesar do combate ser meio sem sal. Dito isso, recomendo aos fãs de Persona!!
Incredibly jank combat but has the most memorable cast in the series
Another game that's PEAK PSX aesthetic, with a mixture of the comfortable, soothing music.
The low-poly environments and super expressive sprite work.
The very silly interactions between the characters and the wonderful dynamics they have.
And the wonderfully written story!
The only issue I have with the game is how incredibly slow the battles are, and how way too easy the game is. Though both of those things do admittedly add to it's comfy atmosphere, it's a real joy!
The low-poly environments and super expressive sprite work.
The very silly interactions between the characters and the wonderful dynamics they have.
And the wonderfully written story!
The only issue I have with the game is how incredibly slow the battles are, and how way too easy the game is. Though both of those things do admittedly add to it's comfy atmosphere, it's a real joy!
i've dabbled in it and liked what i've seen! obviously bridging the gap of persona-ness and SMT-ness
Gameplay is fucking ROUGH. Encounter rate is astronomical, and the conversations make absolutely no fucking sense, but the rumor system to affect the game world is pretty slick. The characters aren't as flashy, or instantly memorable as other Atlus titles, but they are probably some of the most consistently and honestly written in the series.
Ginko my beloved
Ginko my beloved
The plot and characters were so good I suffered through probably one of the most unpleasant turn based combat systems I have ever played for wayyyy longer than I ever expected. I play almost exclusively turn-based RPGs combat-wise and am a sick bastard who will and has grinded for fun across almost all the RPGs I've ever played...but IDK, the menus in this game felt so slow from even the first level at Tatsuya's school I began to dread random encounters because of how much time it would take to even run away. That plus the long dungeons meant I did NOT have fun playing this. Still four stars though; the story and cast were just that compelling IMO.
UM DOS PERSONAS JA FEITOS
i replay this one from time to time
changed my life. im gay now
Persona 2 Innocent Sin es una experiencia conmovedora por su elenco de personajes que vas a querer en todo el trayecto.
Es agradable ver las conversaciones de los protas y cómo van reforzando sus vínculos a medida que vas progresando en la historia, Tatsuya, Eikichi, Lisa y Maya forjan una verdadera amistad pasando de ser completos desconocidos a tener una conexión inquebrantable.
Un aspecto que me gusta bastante de la aventura es notar como las cosas van escalando desde rumores que hacen realidad pequeñas leyendas urbanas a tener giros bizarros que escalan y escalan en crudeza y extravagancia, pasando de estatuas que se mueven solas a sectas ocultistas de control mental hasta revivir batallones de soldados antiguos (falta por contar más). Hay de todo aquí y es imposible aburrirte con lo bizarro del asunto.
Persona 2 Innocent Sin es de esas historias que se te quedan en el corazón. Recomiendo su versión de PS1 que ya tiene traducción al inglés, no tiene censura y en gameplay es mucho más rápido y fácil de navegar que su port a PSP.
Es agradable ver las conversaciones de los protas y cómo van reforzando sus vínculos a medida que vas progresando en la historia, Tatsuya, Eikichi, Lisa y Maya forjan una verdadera amistad pasando de ser completos desconocidos a tener una conexión inquebrantable.
Un aspecto que me gusta bastante de la aventura es notar como las cosas van escalando desde rumores que hacen realidad pequeñas leyendas urbanas a tener giros bizarros que escalan y escalan en crudeza y extravagancia, pasando de estatuas que se mueven solas a sectas ocultistas de control mental hasta revivir batallones de soldados antiguos (falta por contar más). Hay de todo aquí y es imposible aburrirte con lo bizarro del asunto.
Persona 2 Innocent Sin es de esas historias que se te quedan en el corazón. Recomiendo su versión de PS1 que ya tiene traducción al inglés, no tiene censura y en gameplay es mucho más rápido y fácil de navegar que su port a PSP.
story is great, gameplay is the worst
Eikichi is the best
Eikichi is the best