given my interest in visual novels and having experienced a few of the big names in the genre back in my teenage years, the fact that i'd never gotten around to ever17 is pretty astounding. it's one of those seminal pieces that completely changed how the medium would be executed for the foreseeable future, and something of a rite of passage in the genre even now. my first uchikoshi project i saw all the way through was 999, and after being pretty mixed and generally underwhelmed with never7, i'm happy to say ever17 is the remarkable sequel and reboot(ish) that people built it up to be.
cat out of the bag, uchikoshi is a hack in the most lovable way. he strikes me as similar to hirohiko araki in the way that he's constantly bursting at the seems with concepts he wants to share regardless of how well he can fit them into the already pacing-troubled genre of visual novels, or how much weight they end up carrying in the greater picture. he's a hack, but he's my kind of hack. and i think the fact that, to my understanding, he was a supplemental force in ever17 more than the general overseer as he was with zero escape works to this game's benefit.
given the premise of ever17, the conversations and concepts at hand actually feel naturally and relevant. basically every concept or theory introduced holds weight and feels like a naturally integrated piece of the larger puzzle. these characters have a lot more time to unwind and communicate in a way that feels natural; where 999 is in a constant state of reminding you how urgent every waking moment is, the perpetual dread of ever17 looms over and is constantly shoved aside like an impossibility, clearly out of mental defense, and it works REALLY well.
i'm a sucker for late 90s-early 00s slice of life anyways, and the moments ever17 SHOULD feel comfy, it comes naturally. the entire cast is interesting and developed well - PARTICULARLY sora and tsugumi, the latter is the rare exception of uchikoshi not only writing a genuinely empathetic and grounded woman character but stands as one of the greatest visual novel characters and respective routes i've ever played. sara and you are great too, and even coco, who embodies that loud-mouthed moe type i tend to really dislike ended up winning my heart over as her route slowly came up over the horizon. ever17's protagonists offer a phenomenal dichotomy and as the slice of life slowly peels away, especially if you play the game with its now obviously intentional route order (which IS the way you really should play it) it occurs to the reader how seamlessly all of the ideas snugly tucked away in moments of slice-of-life key-esque everydayisms and bombastic melodrama piece together into a final act perhaps too intelligent and profound for the game's own good.
ever17 is a slog at points but i chalk that up half to the nature of early vn composition as a whole and half to being completely by design. the slow days wasting away with this cast build up a social structure and a dynamic that, when tinkered with, becomes even more irregular and upsetting. it's astounding how ballsy this game gets in its final hours, even with all of the games it's inspired down the road under my belt. i'd be very surprised if another uchikoshi project gets to me the way this one did, but then, there's still remember11 down the road.
cat out of the bag, uchikoshi is a hack in the most lovable way. he strikes me as similar to hirohiko araki in the way that he's constantly bursting at the seems with concepts he wants to share regardless of how well he can fit them into the already pacing-troubled genre of visual novels, or how much weight they end up carrying in the greater picture. he's a hack, but he's my kind of hack. and i think the fact that, to my understanding, he was a supplemental force in ever17 more than the general overseer as he was with zero escape works to this game's benefit.
given the premise of ever17, the conversations and concepts at hand actually feel naturally and relevant. basically every concept or theory introduced holds weight and feels like a naturally integrated piece of the larger puzzle. these characters have a lot more time to unwind and communicate in a way that feels natural; where 999 is in a constant state of reminding you how urgent every waking moment is, the perpetual dread of ever17 looms over and is constantly shoved aside like an impossibility, clearly out of mental defense, and it works REALLY well.
i'm a sucker for late 90s-early 00s slice of life anyways, and the moments ever17 SHOULD feel comfy, it comes naturally. the entire cast is interesting and developed well - PARTICULARLY sora and tsugumi, the latter is the rare exception of uchikoshi not only writing a genuinely empathetic and grounded woman character but stands as one of the greatest visual novel characters and respective routes i've ever played. sara and you are great too, and even coco, who embodies that loud-mouthed moe type i tend to really dislike ended up winning my heart over as her route slowly came up over the horizon. ever17's protagonists offer a phenomenal dichotomy and as the slice of life slowly peels away, especially if you play the game with its now obviously intentional route order (which IS the way you really should play it) it occurs to the reader how seamlessly all of the ideas snugly tucked away in moments of slice-of-life key-esque everydayisms and bombastic melodrama piece together into a final act perhaps too intelligent and profound for the game's own good.
ever17 is a slog at points but i chalk that up half to the nature of early vn composition as a whole and half to being completely by design. the slow days wasting away with this cast build up a social structure and a dynamic that, when tinkered with, becomes even more irregular and upsetting. it's astounding how ballsy this game gets in its final hours, even with all of the games it's inspired down the road under my belt. i'd be very surprised if another uchikoshi project gets to me the way this one did, but then, there's still remember11 down the road.
I was baited into this under the promise that even if I disliked Zero Escape, this would be very very interesting. I was also informed this isn't only uchikoshi working on it, to soften the blow.
This is the worst prose I've read in a very very very long time, and I put up with shit from Umineko. Here's some excerpts from this work of pure art:
"Why had such a thing happened?
He had no idea.
No idea...
Where he was.
Where had gone.
Shaking.
Shaken.
Feeling ill."
"Couldn't be? Do you know something about this?
I don't know anything...
Do you know something?
How could I know anything?"
"He had no idea.
He didn't know...
There was no way he could know.
But there on the bed.
There...
On the bed...
There...
The bed below, the bed on top, the bed below...
Who are...
(You...?)
Who...?
(Stop...)
Please stop."
"More than anything, they didn't allow PDAs to work inside so the facility would be completely separated from the world above as part of the attraction." (Yes, this is how it's grammatically said).
No, I got a lot further than where these excerpts are taken from and it did not get any better. Some of this could be translation errors, but I went ahead and checked up with the kanji for a few of these just to make sure and no the separations and general use of establishment with where people are is just disorienting. This main hook is laughably bad too. I recall what a friend told me today, "VN authors need more Agatha Christie in their lives." And boy does that hold true. What a mess!
This is the worst prose I've read in a very very very long time, and I put up with shit from Umineko. Here's some excerpts from this work of pure art:
"Why had such a thing happened?
He had no idea.
No idea...
Where he was.
Where had gone.
Shaking.
Shaken.
Feeling ill."
"Couldn't be? Do you know something about this?
I don't know anything...
Do you know something?
How could I know anything?"
"He had no idea.
He didn't know...
There was no way he could know.
But there on the bed.
There...
On the bed...
There...
The bed below, the bed on top, the bed below...
Who are...
(You...?)
Who...?
(Stop...)
Please stop."
"More than anything, they didn't allow PDAs to work inside so the facility would be completely separated from the world above as part of the attraction." (Yes, this is how it's grammatically said).
No, I got a lot further than where these excerpts are taken from and it did not get any better. Some of this could be translation errors, but I went ahead and checked up with the kanji for a few of these just to make sure and no the separations and general use of establishment with where people are is just disorienting. This main hook is laughably bad too. I recall what a friend told me today, "VN authors need more Agatha Christie in their lives." And boy does that hold true. What a mess!
tsugumi my beloved
I really want to love this game I really do.
Not only does it have probably my favorite setting in a video game but the overall experience was amazing I didn't mind the slice of life stuff that people complained at all, this could've been a 9/10 game for me.
If only not for the very last 2 hours of the game which make for the single worst ending i've seen in a video game so far
Not only does it have probably my favorite setting in a video game but the overall experience was amazing I didn't mind the slice of life stuff that people complained at all, this could've been a 9/10 game for me.
If only not for the very last 2 hours of the game which make for the single worst ending i've seen in a video game so far
"Pero dígame señor Anderson, ¿Cómo puede amar los videojuegos si dichos juegos no se... Juegan?"
And so I continue my journey through Uchikoshi's writing credits in a kind of reverse order.
I was a bit surprised how much I enjoyed this one. The first hour confirmed that this was very much an "early" work of his, and I would go so far as to call it something of a 999 prototype. Having played 5 of his games in the span of a year, I've noticed that he has a set of battle tested plot devices he's been polishing up iteratively. It could feel like I'm reading the same story over and over, but in application they're more like structural elements of the story rather than the twists. In a way it feels like sci-fi chemistry where he takes a set of known hooks and mixes them together in different ways to see how they interact.
Here with Ever 17, what's interesting to me is that the "thriller" element of the Zero Escape and Somnium Games is gone. Instead we get a quieter, more character driven drama. There's still definitely the paranormal/sci-fi mystery element and more exciting moments, but not so much the pushing tension the later scenarios lean into. Less reliance on suspicion and shadowy antagonists and more gradual and mostly cooperative struggles against nature.
What I ended up liking the most about this title was what I've generally found to be a weakness in Zero Escape/Somnium: characters. The cast here is nearly as flashy, quirky, and immediately rememberable — there's no Dates or Clovers or Aibas — but they feel more grounded because of that, and their dialogue still has plenty of chracter. Everyone has a decent range of roles they play and their own ways of playing them.
The characters also get the time they need for their arcs to build and for you to get attached to each by the end. And in direct contrast to my issues with later Uchikoshi titles, you actually get some solid closure with the characters by the end. Not sure how that quality of his stories went so haywire with Zero Escape.
That said, the pacing here can feel a tad more sluggish due to a less refined story. For the most part it glides along pretty well, especially since they wisely made the skip feature work on "similar" scenes and not just the exact scenes you've read — for example, if someone delivers a bit of exposition in one scenario, the smart skip will generally let you skip that same exposition in another route, even if given by a different character. On occasion though, there are still a few scenes that will feel road-bumpy. Getting to all the "good" ends and through the true route took me about 19-20 hours so it still felt like a pretty light read (for me).
As a sci-fi fan I should also mention how those elements are used, as I was quite entertained by the set of topics explored. There were some well worn matters, but also a lot of ideas that now feel kind of cooly retro and even ones that feel more uncommon (at least in my reading). I think there was a lot of good detail paid to water and diving physics without getting too caught up with itself. It was lighter with the supernatural/occult conspiracy elements than ZE. Enough to make it fun but not so much that it muddled up the hard sci-fi elements.
From a technical level, there's not much more to say than that this is an early 00s VN but on the more fully featured side. It should be explicitly noted, though, that this is a strictly text VN unlike Uchikoshi's later works. So anyone hoping for more puzzle gameplay will be left wanting here.
On that note, I would call this a solid recommendation for general VN fans, and particularly for readers looking for character driven sci-fi dramas or early 00s ocean themed stories. Not the most polished work, but much more solid than I expected. And its more matte finish is actually part of its appeal.
I was a bit surprised how much I enjoyed this one. The first hour confirmed that this was very much an "early" work of his, and I would go so far as to call it something of a 999 prototype. Having played 5 of his games in the span of a year, I've noticed that he has a set of battle tested plot devices he's been polishing up iteratively. It could feel like I'm reading the same story over and over, but in application they're more like structural elements of the story rather than the twists. In a way it feels like sci-fi chemistry where he takes a set of known hooks and mixes them together in different ways to see how they interact.
Here with Ever 17, what's interesting to me is that the "thriller" element of the Zero Escape and Somnium Games is gone. Instead we get a quieter, more character driven drama. There's still definitely the paranormal/sci-fi mystery element and more exciting moments, but not so much the pushing tension the later scenarios lean into. Less reliance on suspicion and shadowy antagonists and more gradual and mostly cooperative struggles against nature.
What I ended up liking the most about this title was what I've generally found to be a weakness in Zero Escape/Somnium: characters. The cast here is nearly as flashy, quirky, and immediately rememberable — there's no Dates or Clovers or Aibas — but they feel more grounded because of that, and their dialogue still has plenty of chracter. Everyone has a decent range of roles they play and their own ways of playing them.
The characters also get the time they need for their arcs to build and for you to get attached to each by the end. And in direct contrast to my issues with later Uchikoshi titles, you actually get some solid closure with the characters by the end. Not sure how that quality of his stories went so haywire with Zero Escape.
That said, the pacing here can feel a tad more sluggish due to a less refined story. For the most part it glides along pretty well, especially since they wisely made the skip feature work on "similar" scenes and not just the exact scenes you've read — for example, if someone delivers a bit of exposition in one scenario, the smart skip will generally let you skip that same exposition in another route, even if given by a different character. On occasion though, there are still a few scenes that will feel road-bumpy. Getting to all the "good" ends and through the true route took me about 19-20 hours so it still felt like a pretty light read (for me).
As a sci-fi fan I should also mention how those elements are used, as I was quite entertained by the set of topics explored. There were some well worn matters, but also a lot of ideas that now feel kind of cooly retro and even ones that feel more uncommon (at least in my reading). I think there was a lot of good detail paid to water and diving physics without getting too caught up with itself. It was lighter with the supernatural/occult conspiracy elements than ZE. Enough to make it fun but not so much that it muddled up the hard sci-fi elements.
From a technical level, there's not much more to say than that this is an early 00s VN but on the more fully featured side. It should be explicitly noted, though, that this is a strictly text VN unlike Uchikoshi's later works. So anyone hoping for more puzzle gameplay will be left wanting here.
On that note, I would call this a solid recommendation for general VN fans, and particularly for readers looking for character driven sci-fi dramas or early 00s ocean themed stories. Not the most polished work, but much more solid than I expected. And its more matte finish is actually part of its appeal.
a very slow, albeit interesting story with a lot of very cool moments
well until the last 2hrs where the story literally falls off a fucking cliff, resulting in by far the worst ending i have read in a very long time
well until the last 2hrs where the story literally falls off a fucking cliff, resulting in by far the worst ending i have read in a very long time
Should have logged this in 2020 when I first tried this game. I tried Ever17 because I'd heard it praised amongst VN fans and especially those who like 999. Completed Tsugumi's route underwhelmed and uninterested in her relationship with Takeshi (that is his name, right?) so I decided to look up the rest of the plot and basically confirmed anything I liked about Ever17 was also later reused in 999 and fleshed out to a degree that I thought was more interesting. Glad it exists so 999 could exist, but I don't know how or why people could think this is an improvement upon 999 in any way. I do like the setting, but the borderline anime harem-y vibes of "guy stuck with girls who fight over his attention" is just......yeah, I can't do it anymore, guys.
A game that uses everything about the visual novel/ADV genre to its fullest for it all to come together in the single greatest true route I have played in any VN ever. The mystery in this is so amazing, and is the best I've ever seen. A masterpiece in every sense of the word.
Soninho simulator
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Zero Escape did some of this better, but the optimistic frutiger aero mood and atmosphere this game had going on is glorious. Far from perfect and I still love it to pieces. If you don't mind shitty pacing and an increase of slice-of-life characterization content over the sci-fi, it's a good read. Nails the ending.
this game has one of the biggest and ballsiest twists i've seen any game do, and the fact that it pulls it off is a testament to how precise and immaculate the execution of it was. this is the type of game where even if you can predict/figure out a reveal ahead of time, there's going to be 20 other things that catch you off guard and have you going "holy shit no way". and it fucking rules for that alone.
i have my problems with this game (there's a lack of urgency for a lot of the routes, people really don't panic as much as they should when faced with the prospect of their impending death, only one of the three romances really works for me, and there's some sexual violence as a plot point that did not age well at all in one route), but i had a great time with this game. i would recommend it to anyone regardless of their affinity for visual novels, because this was a landmark game that has left an impression on me that will stick with me for a very, very long time.
i have my problems with this game (there's a lack of urgency for a lot of the routes, people really don't panic as much as they should when faced with the prospect of their impending death, only one of the three romances really works for me, and there's some sexual violence as a plot point that did not age well at all in one route), but i had a great time with this game. i would recommend it to anyone regardless of their affinity for visual novels, because this was a landmark game that has left an impression on me that will stick with me for a very, very long time.
While the pacing leaves a lot to be desired, the cast is decent and the overall plot has a couple of great moments. I'm still not a fan of how much is handwaved though.
Despite having some pacing issues and Sora's route being awful, this is a good visual novel with a great cast, an interesting story, and a fantastic soundtrack.
uchi's first dive (haha get it? cuz they're underwater) into the people trapped in a location scifi genre. it sucked but paved the way for future good games by him. it's kind of like how jesus needed to die so we could all reach salvation
Una de las experiencias más hermosas y únicas que he tenido el placer de probar, mientras que a su vez, es de las que más conciente está de la forma en que funciona el medio en el que se desarrolla.
Legítimamente, es imposible contar ésta historia de cualquier otra forma que no sea mediante un videojuego sin cagarla, porque incluso teniendo detalles que uno vería como irrelevantes (Cómo lo es la perspectiva en primera persona, el hecho que tengas que rejugarlo varias veces para conseguir el verdadero final o que ciertos diálogos cambien dependiendo del personaje que elijas), terminan siendo piezas esenciales para el Plot Twist final.
Quizá el único "Pero" que uno podría tener es que hay ocasiones muy puntuales en que el juego opta por un ritmo absurdamente lento y pesado de leer (Aunque a final de cuentas sirva para darle peso a las relaciones que formes con los personajes), pero que una vez y te llegas a acostumbrar, serás recompensando con caracterizaciones preciosas de su muy extrañable cast.
Ever17 fue juego que me dió perspectivas sobre la ficción y la vida misma que nunca se me hubieran pasado la cabeza en ningún instante, que me enseñó lo bello que puede ser una simple casualidad; pero sobretodo, que no importa la cantidad de dudas que uno pueda tener sobre si mismo... Siempre habrá una forma de encontrar una respuesta... Siempre habrá una forma... De salir del infinito.
Legítimamente, es imposible contar ésta historia de cualquier otra forma que no sea mediante un videojuego sin cagarla, porque incluso teniendo detalles que uno vería como irrelevantes (Cómo lo es la perspectiva en primera persona, el hecho que tengas que rejugarlo varias veces para conseguir el verdadero final o que ciertos diálogos cambien dependiendo del personaje que elijas), terminan siendo piezas esenciales para el Plot Twist final.
Quizá el único "Pero" que uno podría tener es que hay ocasiones muy puntuales en que el juego opta por un ritmo absurdamente lento y pesado de leer (Aunque a final de cuentas sirva para darle peso a las relaciones que formes con los personajes), pero que una vez y te llegas a acostumbrar, serás recompensando con caracterizaciones preciosas de su muy extrañable cast.
Ever17 fue juego que me dió perspectivas sobre la ficción y la vida misma que nunca se me hubieran pasado la cabeza en ningún instante, que me enseñó lo bello que puede ser una simple casualidad; pero sobretodo, que no importa la cantidad de dudas que uno pueda tener sobre si mismo... Siempre habrá una forma de encontrar una respuesta... Siempre habrá una forma... De salir del infinito.
Tsugumi my beloved 10/10
this shit sucks ass tbh its called the out of infinity because if you fucking play it its gonna put you to sleep for an infinity amount of hours because its so fucking boring
Insane. Insane premise, insane execution, insanely deliberate. It starts smart and slow by initially having a focus on SOL and romcom. This works wonders to set up the cast, which by the end, is truly amazing and one of a kind. All of this culminates in the true route, which is one of the ballsiest pieces of fiction I've come across. The first four routes are excellent in their own ways, but the true route is a masterpiece in its own right. Bravo.
very bad pacing, but the core trick and ending route is fucking crazy in 2001
never7 was bad, but at least it didn't make me read about the characters eating tuna sandwiches 10,000 times over
picked this up because I thought the setting was cool but I got filtered. 4.5 hours in and absolutely nothing has happened, and I don't particularly care for the characters so the slice of life is not sustaining me. maybe I'll play remember11 and then try again.
I can't fucking believe Uchikoshi did the whole Zero Escape series just to repeat the twists he firstly thought of here. But I'm sort of glad, because while the final revelations are pretty good (maybe even better constructed throughout the game than ZE), the rest feels kinda like a chore.
This review contains spoilers
Ever17 es una Visual novel que de buenas a primeras definirías con un setting peculiar, las tramas de escape rooms suelen transmitir un sentido diferente de urgencia, Así que en buenas a primeras ciertamente estuvo inmerso en las primeras horas de juego.
La cuestión es que el consumo se me hace medio molesto una vez asentado y centrado en la trama más slice of life pues aca hablamos que La mayoría del contenido es puro relleno o pérdida de tiempo, y No tanto por el contenido en sí sino que es un contenido repetitivo en el sentido más puro de la palabra. Tienes gran parte del diálogo que no aporta a nada, haciendo chistes, jugando escondidas o comiendo sandwiches, dale es raro una interacción tan normal en una situación donde no puedes relajarte de esa manera estando a 5 días de poder morir e igual no seria tanto un problema cuando bueno repito son 5 rutas y estas interacciones no cambian y son exactamente iguales, pero el juego ni siquiera tiene la decencia de decir que diálogo es repetido (varias VN suelen programar un fast travel exclusivo para diálogos repetidos pero no este caso, He buscado si esta lo tiene pero parece que entre diferentes versiones puede funcionar o no), entonces no puedes saltear del todo porque habrá una diferencia que el juego pretende darte a entender que es importante, así que ponle que puedes quitarle el 70 por ciento del contenido reduciendo el tiempo juego pero mejorando en términos de ritmo o bueno cambiar los diálogos.
Comprendo que es complicado ya que tengo entendido según entrevistas de los creadores que estuvieron agarrados del cuello en los tiempos de entrega, esto pudo afectar el no haber más variedad de diálogo.
Por otro lado admitó que La mejor ruta es la de tsugumi que contiene temas bastantes interesantes y un desarrollo con giros trágicos de los eventos que lo hacen una historia solida por si misma, de hecho funcionaria de forma independiente, pero estos logros son algo que después las próximas rutas bastardean, me explico lo mejor de esa ruta fue el sacrificio de takeshi fue un final agridulce y genial que te dejaba al borde la lágrima, por ello es una decepción cuando en retrospectiva deja de importar pues el plot final es que takeshi sobrevive, vaya molesta bastante que pintes una escena triste y pretendes hacer creer al espectador que alguien murió para que después no muera, tal one piece. Es una traición con la escena podrías haberlo hecho más sobria para que no se sienta tan tramposa en el gran esquema.
Lo más molesto en todo esto es la misma explicación pues el elemento usado para que Takeshi sobreviva es algo de OTRO JUEGO (asegurado en entrevistas sumales), específicamente never7 y es básicamente poder del amor, un poco gracioso.
Muchas de las rutas son terminan siendo al pedo, incluso con la excusa de que son dimensiones alternas no hay muchas variaciones que lo justifiquen pues mucho de este diálogo se repite en la ruta final, y la teoría de schrodinger contradice activamente con el concepto de predestinación en los viajes en el tiempo que el juego justifica como la principal y segundo los sucesos importantes se repiten de cualquier manera osea en la ruta final se repite todo evento relevante anterior, es diferente a algo como tatami galaxy que sus repeticiones nunca eran iguales a la anterior más allá de la fórmula de nuevo club - sale mal incluso los capítulos 8, 9 y 10 que narraban el mismo día aprovechaban a contarlo desde diferentes puntos de pistas asi no se repetía diálogo o los momentos.
- El problema de los viajes en el tiempo entran en el momento que metes lógica de causalidad, que es lo que implica LAS DECISIONES en una ruta takeshi que el juego activamente te desvía a diferentes finales dependiendo de como estuviese disponible en tiempo para tsugumi o sora, donde si o no podrían formar un lazo de amistad dependiendo de la decisiones. pero en la última ruta si tiene tiempo para todos estos diálogos, todos estos momentos que antes decían que no se podría, SIMPLEMENTE DE DONDE SACO EL TIEMPO?
Ahora entramos en un río de diferentes implicaciones y es que Toda la trama esta trama se sustenta en el destino, El GRAN PLOT TWIST de esta cosa es una paradoja de predestinación, osea por ejemplo A viaja al pasado para evitar B y descubre que A fue la causa de B, No es algo malo aunque tampoco es que diga "FUA ME EXPLOTO LA CABEZA" pero esto en sí mismo implica afirmar que el destino existe todas tus acciones ya son conocidas por tu yo futuro, el mismo plan de you fue justamente planeado por blickwinkel del futuro, interesante no? El problema surge con 2 cuestiones.
-Primero No hay tensión, ya de por si lo anterior implicaba que todo está predestinado para salir bien pues... saldrá bien, aunque realmente puede ser justificable habría que sumarle a que al menos las rutas de KID estaban planificadas por usted para que nadie muriese, las constantes amenazas de tensión que se alargan horas en este juego eran... algo cuidadosamente planeado por lo que eran un puro engaño.
- Después entramos con la idea de bad endings, que tienen el problema de ser decisiones especificadas pero que contradicen decisiones o el mismo sentido de la causalidad. Por ejemplo si kid u otro muere en un bad ending esto dañará la causalidad posterior que causó el evento en primer lugar y dejaría de ser predestinado.
pero también estos bad endings no tienen sentido en su misma lógica, varios personajes se salen de personaje, como si en cierto punto la historia se cortase (porque de hecho fue asi) kid tiene el plan de escapar y pam se le olvida o tsugumi de un momento decide dejar a los otros morir cuando activamente quería ayudar.
En resumidas cuentas con respecto a los bad endings se sienten metidos a último momento sin planear mucho, rompen con la casualidad y reglas establecidas.
Ahora el problema principal surge cuando piensas que YOU estuvo 17 años sin aceptar la muerte de sus amigos que conoció una semana, para poner a su hija en riesgo de morir que las razones se contradicen porque por un lado dice tenerlo planeado hasta que esto se contradice al llegar a un bad ending.
Donde el juego te obliga a pensar que entre 10 universos paralelos que salieron mal, te tienes que alegrar porque uno salió bien.
A Propósito o no, La conclusión muy feliz se siente escapista donde muchas inmoralidades salieron bien porque sino las cuestionadas muchos personajes salían mal parados en sus decisiones.
O el asunto de la amnesia de ryogo que otravez para el bien del plot twist queda como un plot hole, Es para el bien del plot twist calar la amnesia de ryogo con la de kid y confundirte, Quedas impresionado cuando te explican la amnesia de kid pero se olvidan de explicar la de ryogo.
Muchos de estos asuntos, son en resumidas cuenta para impresionar en el plot twist, el que haya 2 you es impresionante, el que la razon sea el miedo a la muerte y un renovado sentido de vida post morten es interesante pero el que you al final se haga inmortal quita la gracia de esta implicacion, y que no desarrollen en la implicacion de poner a tu hija en peligro me hace pensar que no lo pensaron muy bien.
Cuando creas un giro de la trama tienes que elaborar en la implicacion del giro, por ejemplo al final todos los personajes quedan siendo inmortales o almenos con juventud eterna, y todos los que saltaron 17 años al futuro se quedaron sin padres (son niños todos) al fin y al cabo, ni que decir de coco que tampoco elaboran quien la va a cuidar, o si se va a quedar en esa misma forma de niña toda su vida.
Lo mismo con el resto de personajes acaban de ganar inmortalidad, y no elaboran en sus propias reacciones mas que sentirse felices de que se reunieron denuevo.
Y asi voy con mis problemas en cada implicacion, La ruta de sora implica en que un tipo se murió por una máquina, te lo pintan heroico pero es una obsesión tóxica para la salud personal. El mito de pigmalion es una muestra de ello no es basicamente un argumento para decirte que si queres obsesionarte con una mona china NO REAL esta bien? O PEOR ahora que estan estos chats GPT la historia te dice "ve y pretende que es real si lo deseas lo sera" MUY ASQUEROSO.
El futuro de Tsugumi y you implican no poder aceptar la muerte de una persona querida y hacer inmoralidades porque una voz en la cabeza te dio una guía.
Mi creencia en la raiz del problema se basa en las entrevistas de los creadores, es que por los tiempos de entrega cada escritor de cada ruta fueron solos sin saber que escribiese el otro y por suerte uchikoshi dice que calaron por magia del destino.
Son muchas inmoralidades o implicaciones que por el bien del plot twist o por el final feliz se pasan por alto, Y es algo que trata de corregir la odiada version de xbox 360 dando un final feliz a cada universo como epilogo o dando una ruta a ryogo explicando que es un pisquico y envio sus recuerdos al pasado (si gracioso), pero justamente con una muy mala narrativa en compensacion o con unas explicaciones sin sentido, pero de cualquier forma por el bien del plot twist se olvidan implicaciones importante que puramente terminan desviando y siendo en un todo hasta un mal mensaje.
3/10
La cuestión es que el consumo se me hace medio molesto una vez asentado y centrado en la trama más slice of life pues aca hablamos que La mayoría del contenido es puro relleno o pérdida de tiempo, y No tanto por el contenido en sí sino que es un contenido repetitivo en el sentido más puro de la palabra. Tienes gran parte del diálogo que no aporta a nada, haciendo chistes, jugando escondidas o comiendo sandwiches, dale es raro una interacción tan normal en una situación donde no puedes relajarte de esa manera estando a 5 días de poder morir e igual no seria tanto un problema cuando bueno repito son 5 rutas y estas interacciones no cambian y son exactamente iguales, pero el juego ni siquiera tiene la decencia de decir que diálogo es repetido (varias VN suelen programar un fast travel exclusivo para diálogos repetidos pero no este caso, He buscado si esta lo tiene pero parece que entre diferentes versiones puede funcionar o no), entonces no puedes saltear del todo porque habrá una diferencia que el juego pretende darte a entender que es importante, así que ponle que puedes quitarle el 70 por ciento del contenido reduciendo el tiempo juego pero mejorando en términos de ritmo o bueno cambiar los diálogos.
Comprendo que es complicado ya que tengo entendido según entrevistas de los creadores que estuvieron agarrados del cuello en los tiempos de entrega, esto pudo afectar el no haber más variedad de diálogo.
Por otro lado admitó que La mejor ruta es la de tsugumi que contiene temas bastantes interesantes y un desarrollo con giros trágicos de los eventos que lo hacen una historia solida por si misma, de hecho funcionaria de forma independiente, pero estos logros son algo que después las próximas rutas bastardean, me explico lo mejor de esa ruta fue el sacrificio de takeshi fue un final agridulce y genial que te dejaba al borde la lágrima, por ello es una decepción cuando en retrospectiva deja de importar pues el plot final es que takeshi sobrevive, vaya molesta bastante que pintes una escena triste y pretendes hacer creer al espectador que alguien murió para que después no muera, tal one piece. Es una traición con la escena podrías haberlo hecho más sobria para que no se sienta tan tramposa en el gran esquema.
Lo más molesto en todo esto es la misma explicación pues el elemento usado para que Takeshi sobreviva es algo de OTRO JUEGO (asegurado en entrevistas sumales), específicamente never7 y es básicamente poder del amor, un poco gracioso.
Muchas de las rutas son terminan siendo al pedo, incluso con la excusa de que son dimensiones alternas no hay muchas variaciones que lo justifiquen pues mucho de este diálogo se repite en la ruta final, y la teoría de schrodinger contradice activamente con el concepto de predestinación en los viajes en el tiempo que el juego justifica como la principal y segundo los sucesos importantes se repiten de cualquier manera osea en la ruta final se repite todo evento relevante anterior, es diferente a algo como tatami galaxy que sus repeticiones nunca eran iguales a la anterior más allá de la fórmula de nuevo club - sale mal incluso los capítulos 8, 9 y 10 que narraban el mismo día aprovechaban a contarlo desde diferentes puntos de pistas asi no se repetía diálogo o los momentos.
- El problema de los viajes en el tiempo entran en el momento que metes lógica de causalidad, que es lo que implica LAS DECISIONES en una ruta takeshi que el juego activamente te desvía a diferentes finales dependiendo de como estuviese disponible en tiempo para tsugumi o sora, donde si o no podrían formar un lazo de amistad dependiendo de la decisiones. pero en la última ruta si tiene tiempo para todos estos diálogos, todos estos momentos que antes decían que no se podría, SIMPLEMENTE DE DONDE SACO EL TIEMPO?
Ahora entramos en un río de diferentes implicaciones y es que Toda la trama esta trama se sustenta en el destino, El GRAN PLOT TWIST de esta cosa es una paradoja de predestinación, osea por ejemplo A viaja al pasado para evitar B y descubre que A fue la causa de B, No es algo malo aunque tampoco es que diga "FUA ME EXPLOTO LA CABEZA" pero esto en sí mismo implica afirmar que el destino existe todas tus acciones ya son conocidas por tu yo futuro, el mismo plan de you fue justamente planeado por blickwinkel del futuro, interesante no? El problema surge con 2 cuestiones.
-Primero No hay tensión, ya de por si lo anterior implicaba que todo está predestinado para salir bien pues... saldrá bien, aunque realmente puede ser justificable habría que sumarle a que al menos las rutas de KID estaban planificadas por usted para que nadie muriese, las constantes amenazas de tensión que se alargan horas en este juego eran... algo cuidadosamente planeado por lo que eran un puro engaño.
- Después entramos con la idea de bad endings, que tienen el problema de ser decisiones especificadas pero que contradicen decisiones o el mismo sentido de la causalidad. Por ejemplo si kid u otro muere en un bad ending esto dañará la causalidad posterior que causó el evento en primer lugar y dejaría de ser predestinado.
pero también estos bad endings no tienen sentido en su misma lógica, varios personajes se salen de personaje, como si en cierto punto la historia se cortase (porque de hecho fue asi) kid tiene el plan de escapar y pam se le olvida o tsugumi de un momento decide dejar a los otros morir cuando activamente quería ayudar.
En resumidas cuentas con respecto a los bad endings se sienten metidos a último momento sin planear mucho, rompen con la casualidad y reglas establecidas.
Ahora el problema principal surge cuando piensas que YOU estuvo 17 años sin aceptar la muerte de sus amigos que conoció una semana, para poner a su hija en riesgo de morir que las razones se contradicen porque por un lado dice tenerlo planeado hasta que esto se contradice al llegar a un bad ending.
Donde el juego te obliga a pensar que entre 10 universos paralelos que salieron mal, te tienes que alegrar porque uno salió bien.
A Propósito o no, La conclusión muy feliz se siente escapista donde muchas inmoralidades salieron bien porque sino las cuestionadas muchos personajes salían mal parados en sus decisiones.
O el asunto de la amnesia de ryogo que otravez para el bien del plot twist queda como un plot hole, Es para el bien del plot twist calar la amnesia de ryogo con la de kid y confundirte, Quedas impresionado cuando te explican la amnesia de kid pero se olvidan de explicar la de ryogo.
Muchos de estos asuntos, son en resumidas cuenta para impresionar en el plot twist, el que haya 2 you es impresionante, el que la razon sea el miedo a la muerte y un renovado sentido de vida post morten es interesante pero el que you al final se haga inmortal quita la gracia de esta implicacion, y que no desarrollen en la implicacion de poner a tu hija en peligro me hace pensar que no lo pensaron muy bien.
Cuando creas un giro de la trama tienes que elaborar en la implicacion del giro, por ejemplo al final todos los personajes quedan siendo inmortales o almenos con juventud eterna, y todos los que saltaron 17 años al futuro se quedaron sin padres (son niños todos) al fin y al cabo, ni que decir de coco que tampoco elaboran quien la va a cuidar, o si se va a quedar en esa misma forma de niña toda su vida.
Lo mismo con el resto de personajes acaban de ganar inmortalidad, y no elaboran en sus propias reacciones mas que sentirse felices de que se reunieron denuevo.
Y asi voy con mis problemas en cada implicacion, La ruta de sora implica en que un tipo se murió por una máquina, te lo pintan heroico pero es una obsesión tóxica para la salud personal. El mito de pigmalion es una muestra de ello no es basicamente un argumento para decirte que si queres obsesionarte con una mona china NO REAL esta bien? O PEOR ahora que estan estos chats GPT la historia te dice "ve y pretende que es real si lo deseas lo sera" MUY ASQUEROSO.
El futuro de Tsugumi y you implican no poder aceptar la muerte de una persona querida y hacer inmoralidades porque una voz en la cabeza te dio una guía.
Mi creencia en la raiz del problema se basa en las entrevistas de los creadores, es que por los tiempos de entrega cada escritor de cada ruta fueron solos sin saber que escribiese el otro y por suerte uchikoshi dice que calaron por magia del destino.
Son muchas inmoralidades o implicaciones que por el bien del plot twist o por el final feliz se pasan por alto, Y es algo que trata de corregir la odiada version de xbox 360 dando un final feliz a cada universo como epilogo o dando una ruta a ryogo explicando que es un pisquico y envio sus recuerdos al pasado (si gracioso), pero justamente con una muy mala narrativa en compensacion o con unas explicaciones sin sentido, pero de cualquier forma por el bien del plot twist se olvidan implicaciones importante que puramente terminan desviando y siendo en un todo hasta un mal mensaje.
3/10
Unlike other VNs in this series, this has an ending!
Go play a real game instead of glorified cutscenes
Coming to this VN while having read Uchikoshi's modern works (Zero Escape and AI), it is very surprising how much of the VN has its concept later being reused in his future works.
I generally liked how casual the setting felt, despite the general situation what was happening. Very neatly placed info throughout the story that makes you definitely use your brain WHAT exactly was going on. But also very fun to read that you can just enjoy the spectacle what was going on. It has an enjoyable cast too, with some standouts and some who were just fine.
There are obviously routes that are better and more important than the others, but I don't think I fully disliked any, just that a certain one didn't add much to the overall plot (which I was still fine with)
Not gonna go deep into spoilers but man, the reveals are kinda insane for something that came out in 2002? Some stuff that you could pick up by (over)analyzing stuff or being a monkey with a typewriter. And the best part? Everything came together so well and the ending is satisfying and I just don't have any problems with it? Great VN, it really is.
I generally liked how casual the setting felt, despite the general situation what was happening. Very neatly placed info throughout the story that makes you definitely use your brain WHAT exactly was going on. But also very fun to read that you can just enjoy the spectacle what was going on. It has an enjoyable cast too, with some standouts and some who were just fine.
There are obviously routes that are better and more important than the others, but I don't think I fully disliked any, just that a certain one didn't add much to the overall plot (which I was still fine with)
Not gonna go deep into spoilers but man, the reveals are kinda insane for something that came out in 2002? Some stuff that you could pick up by (over)analyzing stuff or being a monkey with a typewriter. And the best part? Everything came together so well and the ending is satisfying and I just don't have any problems with it? Great VN, it really is.
I can see the sun, you can see the moon.
and there are a little dream and hope in the sky.
I can see the sky, you can see the sky.
and I'll show you our sunshine...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMn9ZPJ_8D0
and there are a little dream and hope in the sky.
I can see the sky, you can see the sky.
and I'll show you our sunshine...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMn9ZPJ_8D0
Yes, the entire thing is just about the ending. You get zero positive feedback right until the very end. A very risky move, but they pulled it off, mostly. Considering how old the game is, I have to give it some credit. Do I recommend it? Not necessarily, considering how many indies these days employ similar narrative tricks. Do I regret reading it? Not at all.
This game has a few great character ideas, but it's clear that character writing isn't what it's focused on at all. It wastes so much time doing nothing interesting only to have the most asinine use of meta I think I've ever seen. I have no idea how people say they find this more satisfying than Remember11.