IV being no. 1 is based.

Yeah, 1 should not be anywhere near the Top 10. Great story brought down by atrociously repetitive mission structure.

@RedBackLoggd tbh I don't see how it's any less repetitive than all of the games in this series. It's also got a run-time on the shorter side, so it never got overly repetitive to me. ACII felt more repetitive honestly, but that's probably because I got burnt out through it's really dragged out run-time.

Lol what? Every mission besides the final two are literally: go to city, do intel task A/B/C (or if you play the PC version A/B/C/D), assassinate target, return to Al Mualim, rinse & repeat. If the intel tasks were varied like in Unity you'd have a point, but they didn't bother changing them at all.

I'm gonna assume you played the Ezio Collection's version of ACII? That version forced players to do the DLC, and yeah, Bonfire of the Vanities kills the pacing of the game and introduces a bunch of repetitive assassination missions. I won't defend that, though there was definitely more variation b/w Savanarola's Lieutenants than ACI's targets.

@RedBackLoggd Every game is essentially just going places gaining intel, sabatoging, or killing no? granted they added more variety into this loop but AC1's loop really isn't that bad. I played the original PC release of ACII, and the core story alone just goes on for what feels like forever, but again that could've been a personal problem as I just got burnt out pretty hard.

The problem is you're conflating a story loop with a gameplay loop. The story of most Super Mario games is getting to the end of the level, yet the games aren't considered repetitive because of the gameplay divergencies.

To each their own for sure. Like I said, it has a great story, but it's the only AC I had to force myself to beat, and this is my favorite series of all time. If repetition is such a big problem for you, I'm surprised you have Black Flag as one considering 25% of its missions are trailing missions, only one of which featured any kind of variation from the core loop.

Yeah, in that case, I can't agree on ACII. I will give you that the pacing does hit a snag during early-Venice section focused on breaching the walls, but the later sections get back on track with the bomber and Carnevale missions.

@RedBackLoggd ACII does have more gameplay divergences but I find them to be mostly tedious, I can't remember what sequence but I remember a bit where you have to do four "collect x" type missions in a row. I also found all of ACII's side content that I engaged with to be extremely boring whereas AC1 I completely ignored all side content from the start, perhaps that has influenced my thoughts.

Black flag is #1 because of the open world and the side content within it, I think it's the most engaging any open world has ever been. I will also say I liked Altair and Edward as protagonist a lot and clicked with them, whereas Ezio I didn't care for in the beginning, in fact I may have actively disliked him in ACII. I also enjoyed the villain of 1, in every other game I find the villains to be either forgettable or poorly written. I know I'm not talking about gameplay but these are probably things that sway my rankings.

I definitely don't remember 4 collect missions. The worst I can think of were those small missions in Venice where you had to run all over the city freeing Antonio's men. Do you mind expanding on that?

Yeah, I'll give you that ACII's side content is mediocre minus the tombs of course. I don't think ACI's lack of content makes it better considering it's 100% optional in ACII lol. You could play the game without engaging with it (I think only one tomb was a mandatory story mission).

Yeah, if we were talking time of release, you'd have a great point, but in retrospect Black Flag's open world wasn't all that great. The Caribbean was gorgeous but mostly empty space for the sailing, and the only unique side content it had were the Legendary Ships, which were of course awesome, and the severely underdeveloped Templar Hunt missions.

You really will have to explain to me how mass-murderer Revelations Ezio is better than ACII Ezio haha. I agree Edward was amazing though.

The villain of one wasn't revealed until the very end so how could you like him so much lol? His motivation was as generic as Rodrigo's.

@RedBackLoggd I cannot recall specifically but I believe it was when you were trying to win over a faction for your cause, you had to go fetch items multiple missions in a row, but my memory could be failing me, and really every AC game has fetch quests so it is what it is.

I should clarify I meant it's the most engaging open world AC has had in my opinion. I got absorbed with upgrading and customizing my ship, clearing forts, legendary ships, hunting all the wildlife to upgrade my gear, exploring little islands, etc.

As for ACII Ezio, I think I just wasn't a fan of how unserious everything was, I think it was in stark contrast to the extremely stoic Altair at the end of AC1 and I didn't like that. As for Revelations Ezio, I just found him to be more interesting, I think it helps I find his motive much more engaging than the revenge plot of 2 and brotherhood. Maybe I just like his character design more, I'm not really sure lmao.

As for the villain of 1, I think it's heavily hinted at before the full reveal but it suckered me in nonetheless, the atmosphere and vibe of the game completely changes as this discovery is built up and it just sucked me in. Also throughout the game I liked the dynamic between Altair and Mualim in their talks/arguments. I also always find Assassin turned Templar characters to be fun, even if it's not executed as well as it should be.

Ohhhh the fetch quests. Yeah you're talking about Sequence 7 with Ezio helping the Thieves Guild. Yeah, that's what I was referring to and it's definitely the worst sequence in the game (besides Bonfire of the Vanities) haha. Still, it's only one part in the grand scheme of things, you know what I mean?

I see where you're coming from for sure. I guess I just see too many flaws in those things that were ultimately improved upon in other games. Forts, for example, were literally the exact same one copy/pasted compared to the ones in the RPG trilogy which, while there were too many of them, had a blackbox overlay that made them unique infiltration opportunities- it wasn't the same "go here, destroy X towers, climb X part and cut down X flag"

The hunting system was also severely dumbed down from ACIII, and the islands often only had a single collectable that was not worth the time dive down from your ship and swim all the way there and back.

But he's only unserious in the beginning? He becomes serious after the death of his family? You sure you're not confusing him with Jacob lol.

I mean, to each their own for sure, but you gotta explain to me how looking for a library is a better motive than revenge, the core relatable trait of most humans.

You could be right, I do need to replay ACI as it's been some time since I beat it. I will definitely give you the atmosphere as ACI has the most unique atmosphere in the entire franchise.

@RedBackLoggd eh I just think revenge is an overdone motive in stories, and I liked the idea of pursuing more knowledge about the creed. Honestly maybe the inner-contrarian in me didn't let me like Ezio at first, I'm not really sure lol.

I think the last time I played black flag was maybe 3 years ago? I'm excited to revisit it and see if certain aspects still hold up for me, I just thought the forts were a cool novelty but I could see how they could become repetitive as you were saying they were quite linear.

I appreciate the honesty and honestly (no pun intended) everyone is gonna vary. If everyone thought the same, we'd be living in a very boring world lol

Well I'm following you, so I'll get the update when you do play it haha.