soul bubbles

oh yeah i forgot about all the people that complain about the camera in ngb. good call

hotline miami 2 a hella big contender for this list

people complain about hm2's controls? it's nearly the same thing as the first game

Drakengard, skill issue of not letting the stockholm syndrome sink in

@chandler
It's not the controls but the level design, the game is much more challenging than the first one but remains tightly designed, they just suck

Why is persona 3 on here that game just has terrible gameplay systems

Not a skill issue

huh. if anything i remember hm2 being easier but it's been a while

@grug found the person who didn't figure out how to use tactics effectively

I finished the game dude it’s not hard

Telling the difference between objectively bad game design and difficulty would be a good start for this list

this mf with mother 3 and devil survivor in the top 5 really be trying to tell me what objectively good and bad game design is

@chandler people get filtered by HM2's level design, reviews everywhere are full of shitters complaining about windows, enemy placement, the Hawaii levels etc.

to the point where even the devs have said the released Normal Mode should have been made into Hard Mode and they should have released an easier Normal Mode on about the difficulty level of the first game in its place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcgmmBEEHsk

@grub you have a point, p3 sucks

aight i'll add hm2 out of sheer disappointment in these people for not knowing how to press the "look ahead" button

i wanna say sonic cd

as a fan of sonic cd i think it's perfectly understandable to not like its aimless direction when going for the good ending

jet set radio

@chandler Yes I do, all 3 of my 5 star games I view as objectively perfect, flawless games with consistently engaging and challenging battles (good game design)

Devil survivor and mother 3 are mush brain games where did you get “challenging” from

A bit different from the other entries but would FFVIII fit in this list? People are all "draw grinding is tedious and it sucks", but if you refine items into magic you should almost never need to draw from enemies. (Partly the game's fault as the tutorials never mention refining abilities and if you follow the default order of learning, they're among the last abilities you learn)

@Chap you didn’t finish either, but the bosses all have tension and are never too easy

@pangburn maaaaaybe. i'll run that one back soon but i remember just finding it kinda boring in spite of its style

@iyellatcloud nah i like ff8 too but that game is flat out busted and easy lmao. it's broken in a fun way but you really need to embrace how much thought didn't go into it - same with the story. draw grinding is stupid tho everyone should just abuse triple triad cards

SaGa Frontier, according to wikipedia.

"SaGa Frontier for the PlayStation received mostly mixed or average reviews in North America. The game currently holds a 71% on GameRankings.[31] Although many publications disagreed on positive aspects of the game, much criticism arose from its Free Scenario System. GameSpot called the game a "solid, if not exactly stellar, RPG that'll certainly keep you busy for a while—or at least until you tire of its occasional lack of focus". The website found the combat refreshing and many of its pre-rendered visuals to be well-done, but had many negative comments, specifically concerning the game's nonlinear nature and unfocused scenarios.[39] IGN proclaimed SaGa Frontier to be "the only bruised apple in Square's current collection of role-playing games", similarly stating that the game's Free Scenario System can become confusing and easily cause the player to become lost. However, it labelled the story and sprite-based graphics its strong points.[41]"

SMT V just because of how filtered people were with its final zone and the bosses.

"whether it be due unconventional controls, confusingly explained mechanics, or the players' own incompetence - this is a selection of titles that alienated a solid chunk of people due to their own misunderstandings despite actually being pretty good"

To be fair I'd say that a level of unconventional controls can certainly be a genuine issue rather than just "git gud". Also, isn't the Bionic Commando reboot largely hated for its terrible tone and stuff like the wife arm rather than the gameplay? That's like 80% of the complaints I hear.

What about God Hand? Game gets harder better you get at it, forces you to know how all the range of its mechanics work.

@chandler oh for sure. I dont think it's difficult per se but it's misunderstood in the sense that the most common criticism of its gameplay ("level grinding was replaced by draw grinding which is even more tedious") arises out of people playing the game "wrong".

@frozenroy unconventional controls =/= bad controls. games can be busted (ie jumping controls in action 52) but it's on the player when a game works on its own terms despite not following genre conventions

as for bionic commando - no. it's first and foremost an action game and the story takes a total backseat. people shit on the game itself and complain about the story because it's low hanging fruit. even then, half the time bionic commando is talked about it's mentioned by someone who never played it as "that dumb reboot with the wife arm"

@erato_heti maaaybe, but do people really complain about that? i always hear nearly unanimously good things about god hand

I was more thinking things where button placement can cause hand discomfort or the like. For example in Heavy Nova you have to hold up to jump in a fighting game and there's a flight feature, AND you're invincible when flying, so the end result is very painful on the fingers for any prolonged period of time.