Sonic Origins is a debatable contender for this I think.
- Altered music
- buggy on launch, I heard
- Inferior to Fan projects

Cave Story 3D

@toasterninja tbh i wasn't aware of it but that's pretty fucking hilarious nonetheless

@huss kiwami's contentious. i'll think about what the bigger offender between 1/2 is

@yata777 it's such a tired and obnoxious debate but yeah i could add reload and mention most others as notes

@artur a few things here:

1. chrono cross only has performance issues on the hd visuals. simply don't use them. the additional features + radical dreamers localization make the port worthwhile over the ps1 release

2. dracula x and ratchet & clank are not comparable as "reimaginings". dracula x is roughly a remix of rondo with the same general narrative. ratchet & clank is a ground-up "reimagining" on a gameplay level, but narratively it completely betrays itself by being exactly what the original is making fun of.

3. i'm on the verge of adding it out of principle but i still see sotc's complaints as excessively whiny. almost everything looks the same and bluepoint stuck very closely to the original art direction. demon's souls doesn't even look like it exists within the same fucking genre

4. final fantasy x uses different models for different cutscenes. much like kingdom hearts, there is a low poly face texture one used for in-game dialogue. higher res and more detailed models are used for cutscenes. this scene is a good showcase of how fucked up the faces are - how they don't convey anything but neutral expression

this is something i call damaging because the hd remaster claims to be just that - an hd remaster - and it isn't one. it literally looks worse

@janssenjam i'll add that one as an edge case for the lack of mj, but generally i'd say origins is a great way to play those games. the bugs are ironed out and having the option to play widescreen is very nice

@mrhoodie good call

GTA 4 on PC, one of the most infamous ports ever, absolutely horrible optimization and can sometimes manage to look worse than the console versions
the 3d era gta games don't have optimization issues but they do suffer from rockstar cutting small things that were in the original ps2 version that generally just made the game look very nice, san andreas especially has a very noticeable yellow filter on the ps2 version that added a lot to the atmosphere but it's completely gone on PC
deadly premonition on PC is probably the most broken port I've ever played and it's still not that fixable to this day, you're literally better off emulating it on RPCS3, better performance and less crashes all around
(not sure if they count since they're not remakes but since saints row 2 is included i figured these can be included too)

Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories is the biggest example of this to me. The remake looks like a 3D action game, but plays like the original 2D roguelike deckbuilder, which makes the game disorienting and much harder.

fuck you for putting resi 4 mobile on here. krill yourself

monkey ball banana mania

every modern remake

mega man powered up is also a good shout here

SADX being on here feels dirty... But I never did play the Dreamcast original.

Kirby's Extra Epic Yarn
-A lots of visual downgrades as expected when moving to less powerful hardware
-Multiplayer removed
-Most annoyingly they added weird overpowered power ups that Kirby can use, that you come across rather frequently, making an very easy game almost braindead.
-A hard mode was added, giving Kirby a health bar,(getting hit in the original just caused you to lose currency), but also added in an annoying little devil creature that shows up every few minutes and interrupting the music. It becomes very easy to deal with since the new power ups will instantly destroy him,(for some reason they aren't removed in hard mode)

+New Meta Knight and Dedede modes are kinda fun

I was gonna scroll past this list thinking there was nothing I could contribute to it but then I remembered...

Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey

Runs at half the framerate, drops the iconic art style of the original, the music doesnt really stand out (for one of the best OSTs in the M&L RPG saga) is released at the end of the life cycle of the 3DS where no one was buying games for it anymore, and ultimately causes the end of Alphadream as we know it. I am very sour towards this remake, specially when its for one of my favorite games of the DS and of all time

@huntermask damn, good choice. The little I've seen and heard, sounds way worse than the original

@huss gta4 on pc is not a remake or a remaster

@nightduck good call. i think there's something to be said in favor of re:com's voiced cutscenes, but its confusing gameplay and asset recycling definitely gives the original a more soured reputation

@matsu _ very good call. dunno why i didn't think of that sooner. powered up and maverick hunter x i feel are pretty clearly labeled as 'the original with a twist' rather than trying to be replacements. i think they're nice for what they are. dracula x chronicles type beat

@kinekuri that's more or less what my opinion would be, but i'm trying to be reasonable here and not too petty

@compressedjpeg recommended viewing. if it were just art changes i wouldn't care so much, but dx also introduces a lot of glitches which are worsened on the pc version. dreamcast and modded steam are the way to go with sa1 - no exceptions (hell, you can keep the sa2 models if you want when modding the steam ver)

@mediocreampuf i had no idea about this one. thanks!

@huntermask also a very good call. thanks!

@tomzacz got caught in the noise and missed this one. thanks!

added sotc due to extremely high demand. also included p3p with a note for other persona games

@chandler
yeah they're not, but neither was saints row 2

@huss correct - i removed that after responding to you for the sake of consistency

Black Mesa
Resident Evil 3 Remake
MGS Twin Snakes

"demon's souls doesn't even look like it exists within the same fucking genre"

Saying you don't like the changes is one thing but this is such extreme hyperbole it's kinda silly.

@fallengrace it really isn't. just look at enemies like vanguard. the original looks like the rubber suit of a toku monster and borders on being cute. the bluepoint version looks ugly and bloody like a doom 2016 enemy. similar things can be said for the lighting changes in his environment

if you think those are similar, then that's just where we disagree

I didn't say they look similar? I've played both games a lot, I imported the original Demons Souls before it even got a Western announcement. I'm aware of the differences and personally aren't bothered by them, however I'm aware some people are which is fine.

My point though, (regardless of it we agree about the game or not) was claiming it looks like it's in a different genre does more harm to the point you're trying to make by exaggerating to an extreme that is completely ridiculous. It's the same game, it's still a souls game, it still looks like one.

actually agree with @fallengrace on this. dont get me wrong the demons souls remake definitely takes some generous liberties, but in the opposite direction you seem to have gotten. Flamelurker in particular has gone from a demonic entity that seems to be melting and/or in constant pain into a rocky WoW raid boss. in some cases it takes the juice out, but with the vanguard it kinda only added some. i understand preferring the aesthetic of the original - i do too - but i think we have to define what that aesthetic is before we get mad at bluepoint for interpreting it themselves. SotC is completely fine and shouldnt be on this list.

RE2 should be on this list not because its necessarily harmful to the original but because it started the remake trend that plagues the industry now. it was cute when SotC and RE2 did it but now its becoming a prevalent issue and expectation that remakes "replace" the original.

RE4 should be on here because it perpetrates that but also is worse than the original in literally every way and has effectively become the "ultimate" version

>No WWHD

You had one job.

Also MM3D is fine with the fanpatch

@fallengrace @multigenre maybe it's a bit much to say entirely different genres, but i think we're splitting hairs over misinterpretations of the same point. they're still both dark fantasy, sure, but i would still argue they are very different brands of it. it's worth also nailing down that DeS is already a game that's essentially stitched together with recycled assets and takes on a hundred different aesthetics by nature, whether intentional or not. so it's especially easy to see why bluepoint's vision feels like such a major departure since there's no real consistent vision to begin with

for this reason, i do think it belongs here. i think it's very easy for someone to see parts of this game and go, "oh it's just a more modern version" when it's really just all over the place in a different way

multigenre - i do agree with you on sotc - i'm glad to hear someone else say it, cause i was starting to think i was going crazy there. i'll remove it again. i'm inclined to disagree on re2make - i feel it's everything a remake should be (a complete reimagining that doesn't piss too hard on what the original sought to do) but i do agree on re4 due to how similar-but-worse it appears to be gameplay-wise and mechanically. do note that i haven't played this game, but that's certainly the impression i get from absorbing so much of it via osmosis

i do get your whole 'seinfeld effect' stance on it, but that's too petty of a reason imo

@icyjiub wwhd is bloom-ridden but that's really about it. fan content isn't being acknowledged for criteria in this list, but either way mm3d's issues do not start and end at mechanical changes

@chandler
WWHD would be better if it was just Bloom. It completely breaks the cel shading outside of areas with direct sunlight.

removed re4 after being held upside down and tortured for hours on end. i have concluded that all of the resident evil remakes are just alternate takes and there's nothing really wrong with that because they're still true enough to the originals and not seeking to replace them anyway

actually you should put etrian untold 1 and 2 tbh, the simpler dungeon designs and emphasis on "story" were pretty misguided approaches to revisiting those games that ended up ripple-effecting into "aged badly"

@apocynadeae isn't the original version playable within untold? or am i mistaken